Two Horse Election Race in Twickenham

We’re not going to refer to the candidates as horses, that would be impolite. No, nope, nay, neiiigh! Not going to happen, but Twickenham’s two horse race could be a very close call on June 8th.  A Conservative majority of only 2,000 secured in 2015 after 18 years of returning a Liberal Democrat MP means Twickenham is a potential swing seat.  With just over a week to go there has been intense campaigning in the constituency.  All three candidates have been active and visible, especially the two front runners, although if you look around Twickenham town centre for posters and election boards then you’d gauge the election mood to be largely one of apathy, followed by a sprinkling of Vince Cable window displays. But poster-spotting does not an election make.

Tania Mathias is mixing the Conservative ‘strong and stable’ message with her vocal support for the NHS and her intention to continue supporting her constituents’ on local issues such as opposition to Heathrow expansion, despite it being her party’s preferred choice. Vince Cable has also vowed to fight expansion which begs the question, who would be best placed to do that, a high profile opposition MP or a majority party backbencher, albeit one who’s chair of All Party Parliamentary Group on Heathrow?  Answer: neither.

The marginal nature of both the Richmond Park and Twickenham constituencies has meant the big guns have paid their visits too.  Theresa May (aka the Prime Minister) showed her support for Tania Mathias by rocking up to St James School for a mini-rally… only to find that it was a bank holiday and half term but she still addressed the party faithful nevertheless.  It’s well worth her aides reminding her of the term dates if she hopes to meet with real pupils and staff. As well as doing the rounds of local fetes and fairs, Cable has also turned up on TV, including on Robert Peston’s programme. (Peston is of course most famous for being the man who put the ‘errrrr’ in Roberrrrt). Cable’s focused heavily on issues such as the ‘dementia tax’ and Brexit in his appearances.

A Twickenham

And talking of Brexit, Mathias and Cable were both ‘remainers’ meaning when it comes to this crucial national issue they either want “the best deal for Britain” or to work to stop an “extreme Brexit”.  What’s the difference? We don’t know – probably something about having a vote on the final deal.  In fact, here at twickerati HQ we’ve slightly lost the plot on the types of Brexit available but we think this may be the shortlist:

* Extreme Brexit
* Hard Brexit
* Soft Brexit
* Red, white and blue Brexit
* Best for Britain Brexit
* I can’t believe it’s not Brexit
* Wooahhhhh!, Brexit-form. Brexit-form for youuuuu!
Note: Other Brexits may be available.

On June 8th it could all come down to a handful of votes. The Green Party has stood down its local candidate and endorsed Vince Cable. This will shift some votes from green to yellow but there’s also no UKIP candidate this time around which is likely to see votes moving back to the Tories. Will Labour supporters vote tactically or stick with their own candidate? Will local or national issues determine the outcome? Will Twickenham take the view that a large Conservative majority is the best way to secure a good deal on Brexit?
We don’t know. You don’t know. But you might have an opinion.

HUSTINGS EVENTS:
* Richmond Chamber of Commerce, 1st June.  5.00pm.  n.b. This is a ticketed, ‘paid for’ event with candidates from both the Twickenham and Richmond Park constituencies. More
* Churches Together, 2nd June, 7.30 pm at Teddington Baptist Church. More

LINKS:
* Tania Mathias – Conservative
* Vince Cable – Liberal Democrat
* Katherine Dunne – Labour

236 Comments

Filed under Local Issues & News, Random Stuff

236 responses to “Two Horse Election Race in Twickenham

  1. And we’re done. Locking this one now. Look out for the election results item soon.

  2. Queby

    LibDems still putting stuff through tne letterbox this morning. Yesterday the last delivery was 10.30 last night.

  3. Paul

    Can I just urge everyone to vote today. Our right to vote was achieved through hard fought campaigns and great sacrifice.

    If you don’t like any of the candidates spoil your ballot paper – it makes a point.

    We are lucky that all three candidates would make a good constituency MP. So we will be looked after.

    Also a warning it is technically illegal to publish how you voted before the polls close at ten tonight.

  4. WHO’S GOING TO WIN?
    Right, just for fun, if you want to predict the result in Twickenham reply directly to this comment with who will win and what their majority will be. Nothing else. Just the name and majority. We’ll see who gets closest and the winner will get the kudos of being called “The Twickenham Political Expert” although we’ve got plenty of them already.

    Name / majority. Nothing else.

  5. Ex-Twickenham Resident

    I have received a letter from Theresa May with a red warning that ‘EU wants Brexit negotiations to start 11 days after you vote.’

    As Nicola Sturgeon says….

    “Did she only find that out after she called the election? It does seem a pretty bizarre argument to underline the importance of the Brexit negotiations and the imminence of the start of the negotiations when she took the decision to call an election that has dominated, presumably, her time and everyone else’s time for the past two months.”

    At the bottom of the letter I have a tear off entitled ‘Ex-TR’s Plan to vote on 8th June,’ with various tick boxes that presumably I must fill.

    When – Will it be on the way to work, At lunchtime, On my way home from work, In the evening, During the morning or During the afternoon?’

    With – Friends, Neighbours, Family or On my own?

    Usefully they fill in the Where for me. I am also invited to go online and share my voting plan.

    What a load of patronising guff that is an insult to my intelligence and I hope to anybody else’s who receives the same communication.

    • Sally

      Ex-TR ,
      Mrs May’s leaflets are thundering through the letterbox over here a la Harry Potter. We are starting to fear opening the door to find her standing there wagging a finger.
      Yes, you could be forgiven for forgetting she called the election for shortly before the EU negotiations. The timing is presented as an act of God. which she is heroically overcoming.
      Just imagine there was no Brexit
      It’s easy if you try
      No emboldened strutting Kippers
      No claiming pigs will fly
      Imagine all the UK
      Saved from the ill will and mess –
      Apologies to John Lennon!
      Ok ,back to this silly and embarrassing charade Mrs May is trying her best to present as a series of necessary battles and sure victories .
      On the bright side, tomorrow whatever happens in the UK we will see James Comey begin to testify. A reporter recently asked Mrs May what on earth Trump would have to say to make her actually , directly criticise him. (After a lot of pressure she managed to grind out that it was “wrong” for him to attempt to bully Mr Kahn.) If Comey reveals anything startling we could see this question put to the test once more.

    • Pragmatist

      I’ve received far more junk mail from the lib dems, I put up a lib dem poster in the hope they’d stop sending it

  6. Nemesis

    Following on from Aristophanes interesting question, I would like to ask about the practicalities of this 2nd referendum. Would it be another binary option:
    ‘Do you accept or reject the terms of the agreement?’
    How is this then to be interpreted if leavers reject it because it does not give UK enough independence and remainers reject it because it is not single market enough? Having a 3rd option was rejected for the original referendum as it would confuse the issue and split votes and therefore be inconclusive.

  7. I had hoped that we could limp through to Thursday without this item becoming “All About Barry” either from the Barry Bashers or from Barry Himself. I hope it’ve amended the criteria such that all new comments need to be approved first. Any comments about “Where do you live” or “Have you read every single treaty ever written” or “What is democracy and is there or isn’t there a K in it” will not make the cut. Sorry about that It’s the will of the people that freedom of speech be curtailed in the interests of sanity.

    Other comments on the choices people face on Thursday are of course very welcome.

  8. Ex-Twickenham Resident

    Just for a moment can we go back to basics?

    As we all know we elect our government through parliamentary constituencies. The analysis of the EU referendum was based on boroughs. Richmond borough voted 70% to REMAIN in the EU. We can infer from this that the leave/ukip message was roundly rejected by the constituents.

    On Thursday we vote for our parliamentary representatves. This will determine if the SW London constituencies of Twickenham, Richmond Park and Kingston and Surbiton support the Tories or prefer to be represented by the Lib Dems and their pro EU stance. Then we will have a clear idea of the prevailing attitude in this area.

    What is beyond doubt is that ukip have made no in roads into the area and indeed have not even bothered to stand candidates. As I stated initially this would suggest that ukip have been roundly rejected by the borough of Richmond Upon Thames. What is to be determined is if the borough will send pro EU MP’s to Westminster or support the Tories.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Correction – ukip are standing in Richmond Park and Kingston & Surbiton. My bad. You lot on the Middlesex side have been spared (well almost).

    • Sally

      Yes, alas, the suffering is not yet over for the people of Twickenham.You over the river may risk falling over a Kipper with a brief to campaign. We have a leftover, off and particularly unwanted one , neither use nor ornament who just won’t go home. We’ve turned out the lights, we’ve stacked the chairs…

    • demokrat

      As mentioned earlier, I am no longer with UKIP, but if you do your mathematics correctly the 3,069 residents that voted for UKIP at the last election, were the votes that got rid of Cable, no inroads??? Let hope he stays lefted. Local people have had enough of all of these party politicians what they want now, is real democracy.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Lib Dems switched to ukip? Yeah right. And the BNP vote went to the Greens?

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      The 2015 election is over. Let’s talk about the 2017 election and we will see ‘the will of the people’ in the constituencies ok?

    • demokrat

      Ex Twick,
      I am sorry to be the one that breaks this to you, but you are very ill-informed regarding elections. You have a very tribal and territorial view of peoples voting habits. People are much more complicated than that.

      Here’s the proof.
      General Election 2010: Twickenham
      Party Candidate Votes % ±
      Liberal Democrat Vince Cable 32,483 54.4 +2.7
      Conservative Deborah Thomas 20,343 34.1 +1.7
      Labour Brian Tomlinson 4,583 7.7 −3.7
      UKIP Brian Gilbert 868 1.5 +0.0
      Green Stephen Roest 674 1.1 −1.7
      BNP Chris Hurst 654 1.1 N/A
      Cable Majority 12,140 20.3%
      Turnout n 59,721 74.8% (of voters) +2.4

      General Election 2015: Twickenham
      Party Candidate Votes % ±
      Conservative Tania Mathias 25,580 41.3 +7.2
      Liberal Democrat Vince Cable 23,563 38.0 −16.4
      Labour Nick Grant 7,129 11.5 +3.8
      UKIP Barry Edwards 3,069 4.9 +3.5
      Green Tanya Williams 2,463 4.0 +2.8
      Christian Dominic Stockford 174 0.3 n/a
      Magna Carta David Wedgwood 26 0.0 N/A
      Mathias Majority 2,017 3.3%
      Turnout 62,004 77.3% (of voters) +2.5

      Cable votes 32,483 – Tania 25,580
      Tories did not win by increasing Tory vote.

      Vote were actually taken off Cable 32,483 in 2010, if people had voted for remain (as again in the EU vote), he would have won.
      But Tory up 5,237
      Labour up 2,546 = 7783
      The add Green up 1,789 = 9,572
      Finally UKIP up 2,201 = 11,733 plus even some new voters to
      overturn his majority

      So the conclusions are:

      1) Of course we don’t know the proportion of the new votes with increased turn out, but these would not of all been for UKIP, so votes for UKIP, MUST have come from some Lib Dem voters from 2010.

      2) People aren’t tribes that always vote the same way, there is a regular party voters, but in Twickenham the swing vote is Cable lost majority + Mathias new majority = swing vote of 14,157, this is means 22% of voters are prepared to change their vote.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Mr, Edwards there are many factors that affect an election result none of which you have considered and to be honest I cannot be bothered to outline to you – but have a think about people leaving and people moving into the borough, some voters leaving us and new voters, the particular demographics of these groups and any policies or broken promises that might be pertinent to a particular demographic or to the constituency ie tuition fees and student population. Once all these factors have been collated then one can go about using statistical methods to suggest why a vote has gone the way it has. Using these methods you can then draw conclusions and try and draw an objective answer. Any final analysis would include a margin for area, discussion and caveats.

      What is not accpetable is a back of the fag packet calculation with a conclusion that looks subjective and fits the narrative of the so called analyst’s mindset.

      If you will excuse me I have to deliver some leaflets and consider the matter closed.

    • Alexis

      I’m not quite sure where this will appear on these pages, however a few thoughts about this election from an ordinary Twickenham punter.

      We too, in leafy south Twickenham have been bombarded by leaflets warning us that we are either doomed by the prospect of paying for our dementia care, will lose our house etc from the LibDems. On the other hand, the Tories have homed in on Labour’s plan to introduce a “land tax”, apparently enthusiastically supported by LibDem’s leader Tim Farron. I wonder where Vince stands on that? Are we and our families likely to be cleaned out by one or the other of these avaricious politico’s?

      What happened to the concept of self-reliance and aspiration which our generation were encouraged to and embraced so enthusiastically? Let’s hope we weren’t suckered.

      Are we, the generation that has to pay for government profligacy out of our hard-earned post-tax wealth? If so, as someone who had to moonlight to pay my mortgage on more than one occasion, I bitterly resent having to do so.
      There are a number of posters here who write extremely lucidly, although at somewhat too much length. Some claim to be business people, perhaps they are. If so, lucky them, I never had time to do that. Most seem to be of a LibDem persuasion which is no surprise. Perhaps that’s how E-TR is able to go leafleting at 2 PM on a working day?
      They really are jolly good at psephology and political semantics but not so good at the reality of life for ordinary people. Perhaps they should learn from the screw-up Theresa May’s bearded wonder boy made of the Tory manifesto.
      Alexis
      PS: E-TR, I will cast my vote tomorrow together with a proxy, so, if Dr Tania Mathias wins by 2 votes, you will know who to blame.
      PPS: At least we don’t have to worry about Diane Abbott as Home Secretary!

    • Sally

      Alexis, I do see you point. Of course you would not want to see what you have worked so hard for reduced. And I don’t know how much you or anybody would be affected by any sort of land tax.
      I assure you I am not running a business empire or sitting on a yacht enjoying my wealth with time to burn, but if I could put another consideration up for your perusal ?
      I am very familiar with NHS clinical services, social care, care for the learning disabled, mentally ill and the aged. Every single service is being hit with brutal funding cuts. Some have closed. Some are skeletal. These are austerity measures. Charities which, the Tories assured us, would fill the gap are totally overwhelmed.
      Sadly one of the excuses for treating vulnerable people like this is the Conservative mantra of independence, self reliance and choice. I actually had a young woman with Downs told that her much loved activity centre for the learning disabled was being closed to help her and her friends be more independent and find things to do by themselves. She can’t cross the street alone.
      Boris Johnson once described the rich as the cornflakes which rise to the top of the box and so deserve the nice things they have. Not everybody can work their way into prosperity and the Tory austerity measures are brutally affecting the most vulnerable. Do we keep allowing this?

    • RiversideVoter

      *Alexis* I am sure many of our millennials, those without the benefit of the bank of Mum and Dad, would be grateful for even a chance to moonlight on a mortgage payment. As if it wasn’t bad enough already Brexit trashed their opportunities completely, try coming out of university now even if you answered the call to STEM subjects, Science is already trashed. I am totally from the generation of self-reliance and aspiration but I paid no fees at uni, thankfully was one of the 1 in 10 students that was female, walked into a job in spite of the shit state of the economy as it recovered with EU membership (Maggie’s answer to the shit economy remember?) benefited even more from Thatcher’s regulation of the City and her “loadsamoney” culture. I could buy a nice leafy 2 bed flat from my £3k starting salary. Thankfully when I didn’t have the money the NHS were there to help. The Monty Python line “But you try and tell the young people today that… and they won’t believe you” has an entirely different message today

    • Queby

      I don’t know when you went to university but in my day, approx 3% of school leavers went on to further education. Now I believe it’s nearer 40%. How many countries (apart from Scotland, it seems) can afford to shoulder the cost of that?

    • RiversideVoter

      Whilst we did well out of Thatcher’s Britain we never stopped having empathy for those who did not, through no fault of their own. I want to be able to take on the responsibility of privilege as wells the benefits. Are we not all in this together and if we have ben lucky don’t we owe it to those who are not? I thought that was another value of our generation? I can point to it in the values and ethos of just about every local private school? 1p on tax is a pretty modest request in that context….

    • Riverside Voter

      Queby Think about what I wrote in my post. When I went to university only 1 in 10 students were women. Even fewer came from ethnic minority or disadvantaged backgrounds. If over 40% now go to university the fact that 50% of them are women and that you now stand a far better chance of a university education if you are a woman or don’t come from a priviledged background is a significant factor in the increase in that percentage. What developed economy can afford to ignore the potential of everyone whether man or woman, rich or poor …….

    • anonymouse

      Apparently in 2015 ‘Tories did not win by increasing Tory vote’.

      But, hang on a mo, that’s exactly what they did. Their extra 5,000 votes were enough to topple Vince. That combined with the backlash against the LibDem coalition and local LibDem complacency that saw his vote reduced considerably.

      The impact of UKIP, the Greens and Labour was negligible, as will be the case today.

      There’s certainly been no complacency from the runners this time, so we have an evenly contested race. Who will be first past the winning post?

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Anonymouse – I should imagine that psephologists will be descending upon Twickenham and rebuilding their voting models in the light of the analysis given in some posts.

      1). Conventional wisdom – backed up by empirical evidence suggests that swing voters make up between 5-7% of the voting population. Yet according to the given analysis – ‘22% of voters are prepared to change their vote.’ That is over 3 times what conventional wisdom tells us.

      2). As the Tory party have been desperate to regain the ukip vote and their strategy has been to woo back ukip voters that have damaged Tory electoral chances – the opposite is the case in Twickenham 2015 according to DemoKrat’s analysis. Indeed it was the ukip vote that won it for the Tories – again defying conventional wisdom.

      3). And then there is the rather puzzling statement that you alluded to – ‘Tories did not win by increasing Tory vote’.

    • demokrat

      Ex Twick and AnonyMouse,

      It is very sad you don’t understand mathematics, the sums are not that hard. Tory increase in vote up 5,237 from 2010, does not overturn a LIb Dem 12,140 majority. So other parties would have had to take votes away from Cable, for the Tories to clinch the victory.

      Let’s see who wins and gets to be Twickerati’s “The Twickenham Political Expert”,

    • Alexis

      Oh dear, I seem to have irritated RiversideVoter with my selfish approach to life – tant pis!
      Unlike her, I was one of the 97% who didn’t make it to Uni in the early ‘60’s so bolted to London as soon as possible to try to make my fortune. I never did that but admit to being comfortably off. By the way, my starting salary as a trainee QS was somewhat lower than RV’s at £624pa + Luncheon Vouchers – remember them? Sadly that did not allow me to buy a nice leafy flat of any size at all. Nor did I have the NHS to help me out – lucky her.
      It’s all too easy for these sort of socialist warriors to rubbish those of us who have been self-reliant all our lives and are trying to ensure that we are never going to be a burden on anyone in our dotage. I don’t mind about losing our winter fuel payment. We never asked for it and can’t refuse it, so donate it to charity every year – who will be the loser?

      What does worry me is retrospective taxation like the “Land Tax” proposed by Corbyn and enthusiastically supported by LibDem Farron. That has nothing to do with looking after the disadvantaged and everything to do with finding an easy source of government income to redistribute as they see fit – perhaps McDonnell and Corbyn will get their way and consign us to a Marxist utopia – didn’t the last one all end in tears and Oligarchs?
      Alexis

    • anonymouse

      Ex-TR
      Yes some very unusual logik from demokrat
      No doubt he’ll be claiming that he was instrumental in delivering a Tory victory, by not losing his deposit, should Tania be re-elected.
      Let’s hope he doesn’t have reason to krow.

  9. aristophanes

    I would like to get a point cleared up that has not been addressed. The LibDems, as I understand it, wish to hold another referendum when the terms for leaving EU have been decided. My question is: what happens if this comes about, and voters reject the terms? Am I right to assume that this would mean “no deal”, so we just leave?. Or would we then be expected to ask to re-join, that would involve agreeing to using the euro etc?. Alternatively, would negotiations have to start again (unthinkable, surely)?
    I would really like to know the answer to this.

    • demokrat

      No mate, this would mean that the Lib Dems would have tricked the country. If you say no to the deal, in their suggested referendum, you then stay in the EU. Its their biggest con ever !!! To re-referendum, the referendum.

    • Nemesis

      Excellent question Aristophanes.
      I’m sure they would welcome us back (as one of the biggest net contributers) especially the Germans. But it won’t be on present terms. They are strongly pressing for more integration hence we will probably have to make a commitment to join the Euro, Schengen and the proposed EU army. Etc. The other alternative of rejecting the deal is WTO rules but since we import more from the EU than we export they would be shooting themselves in the foot. It is a customs union and very protectionist- no surprise then that they have seen their share of world trade shrink rapidly. With WTO we would also regain our own seat on world trade bodies, which we don’t have at present.
      There are other options such as joining EEA a la Norway or the loose arrangements of Switzerland etc. I don’t think they fare too badly economically. This is half in half out and I would view only as an transitionary arrangement which has the possibility of becoming a proper free trade union not a political one.
      But I agree there has been little discussion on how Farron and his band would proceed with his second referendum..

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Aristophanes – we have not left the EU until after the 2 year period. Within the 2 year period we are able to change our minds referendum or not.
      Assuming that the negotiations go ahead and a final deal is worked out, The Lib Dems are suggesting a referendum on the final deal with the explicit option of remaining in the EU, we would remain on current terms should the people vote that way. That is my understanding of the matter.

    • Riverside Voter

      I have heard plenty of discussion of the idea of a second referendum by the Libdems. Their point is that the referendum was a simple in /out vote. It was a problematic decision for many voters because they were asked only whether they wished to depart not how they wanted to depart. I know many Leave voters who like Nemesis made that decision based on assurances, made in the main by politicians who would never have to deliver, that we would retain the benefits of membership of the single market, or even that WTO membership is a viable alternative in the event of no deal. In reality either of those will be extremely complex to deliver, and the risks of a botched negotiation or a deal that will result in considerable economic damage to the UK are high particularly in the event of the sort of extreme Brexit, out of the single market and customs Union, that May is signalling. That is simply not what people voted for in the referendum, The Libdems are saying the electorate should have a chance to vote on the terms of the exit as well as the banally defined principle (and May’s current plans are no less banal), the destination as well as the departure. There is no trickery, I have heard Tim Farron be quite candid that he does not believe a deal is possible that is better than the one we have, but if a deal is achieved that is acceptable to the electorate then well and good.

      It is simplistic to say that the EU will seek to make the terms of the deal worse if there is a prospect of a referendum or that if people voted against the deal they would make the terms for re-entry worse. The EU has 27 members to consider, for none of those members is trade with the UK as important as the Trade with the 27 countries is to the UK and that is reflected in the EU’s negotiating position which is focused on the political union and the principles that underpin it. It therefore puts the rights of citizens of EU countries and the issue of the Irish border, and the Resolution of the EU underwritten Good Friday agreement, and the protection of the principles of the union at the top of their priorities. Free trade is dependent on their principles not the economic benefit, and there will be no cherry picking of economic benefits for the U.K. They have already said they would welcome the U.K. back into the EU, at any point, as a country in which 48% of those who voted wanted to stay in, no mention of seeking to worsen the deal. May meanwhile puts a level of control of immigration that is already damaging business and agriculture at the top of her priorities and states that as a result we will leave the single market and customs union. Senior managers in business attempting to draw her attention to the realities of trade and the impact on the economy are frozen out. She seems determined to approach these very complex negotiations in an adversarial manner that fails to appreciate that hugely complex international negotiations require a collaborative approach and the use of imagination and creativity to find a mutually beneficial way through.

      The WTO is no quick fix either. Quite apart from a complex system of quotas with the EU that it will take time to unravel
      for the UK. It also has 164 members, many of whom have historic as well as economic reasons to wish to get the best possible deal with the UK for themselves as Johnson found when he travelled to Africa on his Empire 2 tour, and May discovered in India. Other countries like South Korea and China who would put economic interests over history have quite openly said that their trade terms with the U.K. would not be as favourable as they are now, without the link with the EU. Germany is far more successful in its trading relationships with the rest of the world, especially Asia, the EU is not holding it back, perhaps we should have been looking to ourselves and the lack of infrastructure and productivity issues rather than blaming the EU.

      There are over 700 international agreements that will need to be renegotiated whatever the terms of our EU exit.

      Maybe Nemesis is right and a deal that will be acceptable to the majority of the country can be pulled off before 2019 in spite of all the complexity and adverse political forces, and the calibre of the politicians involved or that the country is prepared to pay the economic price of failing to do so. If so what problem is another referendum? If however as I anticipate May or whoever stabs her in the back, approach this without appreciating the complexity armed only with the belief they are entitled to a good deal, and we end up in a position of extreme economic peril then I really want there to be an opportunity to pull back from the brink.

    • Nemesis

      Is Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty revocable ?
      The wording of Article 50 is ambiguous since it was never expected to be used. It is up to the lawyers to interpret the law, not the civil servants who wrote it. So far no legal ruling has been made and the treaties are silent on the question. The more important question is whether it would be sensible to do so. It would not take much reflection to conclude that it would be extremely unwise to make it revocable. The referendum was set out by all parties on the basis it was irreversible and there was greater participation with the electorate than in any recent election. You would be heading further down the path of a constitutional crises; the will of the people via the Parliament.
      The sensible approach is to assume that invoking Article 50 is irreversible.

    • Nemesis

      Riverside voter. I take extreme exception to;
      “I know many Leave voters who like Nemesis made that decision based on assurances, made in the main by politicians who would never have to deliver, that we would retain the benefits of membership of the single market, or even that WTO membership is a viable alternative in the event of no deal”
      You cannot possibly know my reasons or motivations for the way I voted.
      My decisions were based on years of studying how the EU actually works, speaking to people directly involved, doing my own independent research and basing a decision on first principles. Not on the blatherings of ill informed MPs and the poor standard of debate from both sides.

    • Riverside Voter

      Nemesis, by your own argument, whether article 50 is revocable is an issue for Lawyers, and the answer resides in the courts, where it is being tested. It would be extremely unwise for that decision to be taken with any regard to “the will of the people” don’t you think? Do you not support the independence of the legislature and the judiciary as one of the pillars of democracy and one of it’s main instruments in providing the checks and balances that have delivered the strength and stability of our parliamentary democracy. We are seeing the strength of that check tested in the US in relation to Trump trying to invoke the “will of the people” (in spite of not actually winning the popular vote) to infringe the constitution with a discriminatory Muslim ban…..

      If the lawyers determine that it is not revocable then the EU have made it clear that continued membership of the EU, in line with the global geo political and economic norm of close relations between neighbours, is still an option if the country decides it is in its best interests whether that is in two years or five years….. That will become more and more likely in the face of economic reality and as the young people who are having their lives and livelihoods affected by a decision they did not want become a greater demographic force in “the will of the people” .

      I fail to see how a vote of 32% of the population that was influenced by so many different factors, some rational, some plain xenophobic, and some the result of misleading and even manipulative campaigns on social media and in the Press controlled by billionaires like Murdoch, Aaron Banks and Roger Mercer, can be seen as any sort of homogenous force that should be driving not just our country but our legislature and judiciary? As Aaron Banks put it, it was war. In his view anything, even the employment of the Consultants now being investigated by the Electoral Commission who advised on the use of the same manipulation first developed in government research into psychological warfare that helped the Trump campaign. I am getting the same sort of manipulative campaigning pushed at me by the Conservatives…….

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      I have given you a thumbs up for your excellent post Riverside Voter. You may have seen the article but I add the link as an interesting addendum.
      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/20/european-parliament-will-welcome-britain-back-if-voters-veto-brexit

    • Riverside Voter

      Nemesis, with all due respect that is the sort of emotional straw man that these debates so often throw up. I am sure you, and many other voters, did make a rational decision based on research but the scenario you paint rests on the ability of our politicians to deliver the deal you outlined, as well as the willingness of the EU to deliver them i.e. you believe them and not the EU . However you cannot claim to represent the majority of Leave voters who voted for a whole variety of reasons and under a variety of influences.

      By the same token I made my decision based on my knowledge and experience of the reality of global trade and business, and geo politics, our sources of competitive advantage in the global economy, which arise to a large degree from EU membership, and those of our competitors in the rising economies, having very in depth experience and knowledge of those developing economies. Our politicians are so focused on their own political futures in the U.K. and locked into an entitled mindset embedded in British culture that they manifest zero understanding none of the serious economic risks we are taking.

    • Riverside Voter

      By the way I am not claiming to be exceptional in my knowledge and experience. There are many more living in this constituency and working in the competitive sectors of the economy who understand as well if not better the economic impact of Brexit. That is why 70% voted to remain and Vince Cable has shown he listens to and understands their concerns.

    • aristophanes

      I was asking only because I genuinely wanted to know what the answer is.
      Article 50 states that a state that withdraws can apply to rejoin under Article 49 (freedom of movement)

    • Alexis

      Fair enough Sally – Whilst I have never worked for public service, I must accept your point of view, although my experience as a customer has varied from excellent through indifferent to appalling. That said, I spent a lot of time volunteering as a Business Advisor for Young Enterprise in Surrey schools so have a fair amount of experience of the way the system works, or doesn’t. Perhaps we can agree to disagree?

      I wonder if Twickerati will hold another meet, if so, I’m sure we could enjoy a spirited chat, although if Corbyn is PM tomorrow night I may well be off to our Moroccan bolthole for the duration!
      Alexis

    • Sally

      Alexis, you are right that public services can be appalling!! No argument at all on that.
      Always ready for a chat, although deeply jealous of your option of a Moroccan bolt hole should the election result be a let down. How about standing in front of the World Foods aisle at Sainsbury’s as a substitute ?

  10. Dr NHS

    DemoKrat/Barry,
    As I see it you have been got bang to rights, as they say. I recall the 2015 election and your address at that very time on the ballot paper was in Isleworth, not Twickenham. Yet you claimed at the time to live in Twickenham (“Barry Edwards lives in Twickenham”). Not to work here, or have some unspecified business here but to actually live here.
    That was a lie; a plain unvarnished and unarguable lie (you are, as they say in Greek, a Katanoiti).
    Don’t be like one of the politicians you despise and try to dodge this, blathering on with another windy soundbite of your own choice. Be the straight-talking man of the people you claim you are and explain why you thought it was acceptable to lie.

    • demokrat

      Dear Struck-off,
      My main comment is on its way and you my have homework and a test, but in the meantime, please try an understand it when it arrives, you may have to stretch that one little brain cell you have, to understand the bleeding obvious. However if you don’t respond to my questions you are a fraud.

    • anonymouse

      Barry,
      Your business is also based at your home address in Isleworth.
      Why don’t you just admit it, rather than continuing to do a Paul Nuttall.

  11. demokrat

    Anonypottymouth,

    Where and who said in 2015 I lived in Twickenham? Are you mad?
    This topic is about the election, could you avoid discussing people’s personal lives and that goes for all of you other idiots that cannot discern the difference between political debate and pathetic name calling. Why don’t all you babies making personal remarks tell us your real names? Scared? Cowards? Internet Trolls? Because if you can’t give your name, when you keep addressing someone else by name, there is really something quite wrong with you !!! And do you know if you did this kind of behaviour in a modern school today, you would be expelled. So grow up, or shut up.

    If you must know I lived in Richmond from 1988 to 1993, Twickenham from 1993 to 2005 and still own property and work in Richmond today. My children went to Twickenham schools for their entire education. Most of my customers and associates live in Richmond and Twickenham. So from a historic and personal point of view I have lived and have worked in Richmond Borough for the past 30 years, so when is all your drivel going to end??

    So what is wrong with you? Who are you? Where do you live? Who do you Know? And exactly what gives you the right to decide who comes from where? Here we go again:

    “be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly”, “advises candidates to “exaggerate” claims and to use a range of other negative campaigning tactics”, “you can secure support from voters who normally vote Tory by being effectively anti-Labour and similarly in a Tory area secure Labour votes by being anti-Tory.”
    Published by the Association of Liberal Democrat Councillors (ALDC).
    http://www.nastylibdems.org/2010/01/lib-dem-campaign-guide-be-wicked-act.html#comment-form

    • Simon Shelly

      …and wth that, the Very Naughty Troll huffed and puffed his way back under his lonely bridge to sulk, all on his own some.

      And they all voted (according to their respective beliefs) happily after.

      The End

      Sent from my iPhone

    • Sally

      Barry. That isn’t a reply, is it.?
      Your registration paper address said Isleworth, you claimed to live in Twickenham. Yes?
      Your first posts here were under the moniker Barry Edwards UKIP and you could not be prevented from going on about your good self in every post. On your second attempt you came in as Demokrat- and promptly gave links to your own websites featuring half cooked and discarded UKIP ideas the Thoughts of Barry and a large labelled photo of your good self.. Since then you have made frequent identifying references to yourself, activities and phantom political party. It has been impossible to escape knowing who you are; you tell us.
      Now, your last outing on this forum you ended up offending, threatening and insulting just about everybody . So popping up to do more of the same risked posters not listening reverentially to your wise words but pointing out your historical howlers.
      If you want a career in espionage ,things are looking shaky.

    • Dr NHS

      You said you lived in Twickenham in 2015. There’s video evidence.
      You lied.
      Admit it !

    • Nemesis

      Barry, if you are worried about immigration your best bet is Corbyn. With him in charge the economy would rapidly go the way of Venuzea and I don’t believe they have an immigration problem.

  12. Paul

    I note there has been some heated discussion on this topic in the past couple of weeks. I must point out the only really important thing is to put your X in one of the boxes in your ballot paper.

    The two main contenders – Vincent Cable and Tanya Mathias are both high calibre candidates with similar views on most topics that concern me – Europe, Health, against Heathrow expansion etc.

    However, we must be clear that Theresa May called this election to strengthen her hand, by getting a larger majority in the House of Commons. This will allow her to dictate her views on the Brexit negotiations and to fulfill other objectives in her manifesto.

    While I like Tanya Mathias and believe she has many views similar to myself I have to urge people to vote against her. Although she will make a number of courageous stands in Parliament – she will still have to support and vote with the majority of demands by the government.

    Vince Cable has the plus point that he will find it easy to push his, and the Liberal Democrat views forward both in parliament and in the media. He also has a lot of experience, and contacts, to deal with Brexit.

    There are a number of issues everyone should consider.

    Austerity. The present government will follow Osborne’s plan to further reduce the state. This means more cuts to education, NHS, the military, ( actual troops, actual life-saving equipment), policing etc.

    This leads to the concern of will there be a policeman when I need one? Will there be a doctor? Will there be a carer when I need one? etc.

    Brexit negotiations. If there is a hung parliament there is a remote possibility that we will have a better team negotiating the deal. Keir Starmer, a highly regarded lawyer, Barry Gardiner and Emily Thornberry make a far more powerful team than Davis, Boris and Liam Fox.

    While I think most of the current Labour shadow cabinet a shambles – this team is particularly strong and their approach seems a far more mature than the childish ‘toys out of the pram’ strategy by Mrs. May.

    If we have no deal by the end of March 2019, the jump off the cliff edge into the harsh world of WTO trading. The tariffs will be bad, but the additional paperwork, the lack of passporting rights etc etc will have a serious effect on Twickenham. Lots of people will lose their jobs in the financial sector or dependent on supplying services to those in the sector.

    To conclude

    This vote is all about the number of MPs the Conservative have in parliament. If that number is reduced Theresa May has less power and will have to start modifying her hardline approach to both Brexit and the cutting of services.

    Therefore I advise you voting for Vince Cable.

    And yes Mr. Demokrat, (spelt the continental way), – you will be happy –
    whoever wins they election will at some point have to spend the billions, building a structure to keep EU nationals out of the country. Customs posts, probably introducing an ID card, setting up regulators for chemicals, medicine etc etc etc etc.

    • demokrat

      Paul,
      You see this is the problem, I politely highlighted to you that it is from Greek and you then say you will continue to spell it “the continental way”. When the facts are so absolutely clear, to continue to hold a false view is to retain a conceit and your voting habit obviously reflect this.

      Unfortunately you are stuck in your own self-fantasy, you see I am no longer in UKIP, but I cannot have you bending reality, as you say “building a structure to keep EU nationals out of the country. Customs posts, probably introducing an ID card, setting up regulators for chemicals, medicine etc etc etc etc” was never UKIP policy, you have just invented it to agitate and discredit. Please read this, because its you.
      http://www.nastylibdems.org/2010/01/lib-dem-campaign-guide-be-wicked-act.html#comment-form “be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly”, “advises candidates to “exaggerate” claims and to use a range of other negative campaigning tactics”, “you can secure support from voters who normally vote Tory by being effectively anti-Labour and similarly in a Tory area secure Labour votes by being anti-Tory.”

      I have always, now better than ever, been placed to help the general public have a voice of its own and one so strong that all you Lib Dums will never have the chance of tricking anyone ever again.

    • Sally

      Paul. Thank you for your excellent, well reasoned posts and good humoured debating.Please ignore Barry E’s spite . He is just jealous.

    • RiversideVoter

      Interesting, the consequences of leaving the EU and the European Courts of Justice such as no longer being able to be a part of the European Medicines Agency which is part of the former and whose regulations are enforced by the latter was never UKIP policy? So UKIP don’t want us to have separate regulators for medicine, chemicals, nuclear power, science, technology with their regulations enforced by UK courts…… And they do not want us to extend the border and other bureaucracy heavy immigration processes to citizens of EU countries. Its all fake news?! What the fuck have they been bleating on about for the last too many years?

      Or maybe this distant understanding of the implications of UKIP policy may be why we are spared our scootering Brexiteer this time around…..

    • Anonymous

      Paul, I could not agree more about a vote for the Tories amounting to a vote for further austerity measures and the reduction of the State. It is May’s full intention to keep cutting State services.
      I have certainly witnessed a large number of mental health, social care and learning disability services being cut, closed or hugely reduced in the last year alone.. The practice is to claim that, whatever the service, it is not being cut. Heaven forfend! It is simply being made more efficient and indeed providing greater choice for punters .

      Said choice usually amounts to a skeletal State service , a couple of tottering charities trying to pick up the slack or private care. May seems to embrace the idea that a service can be hollowed out from within yet function better. Witness her response when asked if the demonstrable reduction in police resources had, as the police forewarned , lessened police effectiveness. Not a bit of it. The police remaining would be gifted with greater powers. The fewer police, the greater the service. In the end we will have just one officer with supernatural powers!. John Grace put it very well in his Sketch today:
      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-london-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-donald-trump-sadiq-khan

      We have a second problem. Falling numbers of EU residents. On which these services rely.

      Nome of this is of any concern if you imagine that neither you or your family will ever need State help.

  13. anonymouse

    Here’s an interesting video of Barry Brexit suffering from wind!

    His first pledge is Honesty & Integrity. 3 mins later he falsely claims to live in Twickenham!

    • anonymouse

      ps Barry now vents using the alias ‘demokrat’, but that doesn’t stop him criticising other commentators for using aliases!

    • Simon

      You can argue all you like about the politics, but the geography loses me. Where is ‘Twickenham Borough’? Is that the one next door to the City of Hounslow and the Kingdom of Isleworth?
      (PS: just got the ‘suffering from wind’ wordplay joke – I realised eventually you meant the weather in the video, too.)

    • demokrat

      Shame about the poor recording, this was not organised by me, it was a local blogger and its a shame, that the weather affected his recording

      These facts are correct at the time of recording, course things have moved on and I have achieved what was need to be done with UKIP and I have moved on and I am now concentrating on the larger challenge that has emerged, which is the role of democracy in all our lives.

      This is not an abstract concept, it is at the heart of your potential lifestyle, because whilst all the other parties are arguing about which job they get in Parliament and dividing up the spoils, the people in the country are ignored.

      I am now exclusively working on “demos Kratos” the real democracy of direct rule by the people for the people. And anyone that is against this is really only hurting themselves, because it has been proven that people make better decisions about their own lives than politicians.

      I don’t care about a few useless naysayers on this site, they are not representative of the majority and in fact are just wreckers trying to ruin any chance of a better society.

    • anonymouse

      Simon,
      The geography is simple. Twickenham is Twickenham, Isleworth (where Bazza lives) isn’t Twickenham. Its in the Boro of Hounslow, as he’ll know from his council tax statements.

    • anonymouse

      Bazza,
      Your claim in 2015 that ‘Barry Edwards lives in Twickenham’ was a lie. That’s a fact.
      Your registered address for the general election was at your home in Isleworth. That’s a fact.
      Why should anyone believe anything you say, when you lie about where you live?

    • Sally

      Hang on, hang on ,I have got the Edwardstripetranslate app:

      “things have moved on”= Let’s get away from where I actually live.

      “I achieved what was need to be done with UKIP “= I failed yet again to keep my deposit. And was as unpalatable to voters when attached to UKIP as I was in any of my previous attempts..

      “People make better decisions about their lives than politicians”= nobody has told me that politicians are people and that my attempted distinction is ridiculous .

      “a few naysayers are not representative” = no negative data at all will cause me to shift my narcissistic vision.

      “I am concentrating on the larger challenge that has emerged”=I have left reality behind for good.

      “Direct rule by the people for the people” =I am trying to get away from the idea of being elected, as that hasn’t worked out so well. You may ask how, without any sort of elections. I will come to rule. I just will, because I am the true voice of the people. ‘Cause I say so. Ya ya ya.

    • Sally

      Barry – my Edwardstripetranslate app just keeps flashing the expression “Narcissistic cobblers” when confronted with your latest attempts. Stop digging. We know it comes naturally to you.
      Please do not try to make out you have some qualifications which entitle you to hold forth. We have been there before, and you were called out by locals with actual qualifications, knowledge and peer reviewed publications. You folded.
      You are in a bit of a tangle about your super new model of democracy which – you have just tumbled – was so termed by the Greeks, You announce this as a discovery. We have all done that project in year five at Primary school; there is no need.
      You are in a bit of a mess to explain how you will run your glorious system without those nasty elections at which you do so badly and with Real People as opposed to lizards in human form or household appliances. Nor did you explain why your video claimed you lived here but your electoral application told another tale.
      Nor indeed why, if we can take this forum as a microcosm (From the Greek word: milkros kosmos, little world), you feel that you can claim to hear the people’s voice while antagonising, boring and trying to shout over every single poster. The peoples’ voices here tell you to put a sock in it (so have the electorate). I commend to you the courtesy and humour of the other posters even when holding very different political views to each other, sadly knowing you will in no way alter your silly behaviour.
      Milkros enkefalos !

  14. A. Robot (Mrs)

    The Robots are off to sunnier climes tomorrow. Votes have been posted. Solar topees ready by the front door. Dictionaries (English-Louder English) to hand. Sausage and mash tablets packed. Just hope we don’t come across any foreigners.

    Good luck to Vince Cable, Sarah Olney, Ed Davey, Labour (apart from Kate Hoey) and all the others, including all the saner people on here and particularly Paul for that excellent piece earlier, who are resisting the infantile nationalism afflicting far too many people in this lovely country. And thanks again to Twick for putting himself through it again so soon after the last episode of rationality-trashing.
    Please read this, if you haven’t already, it’s excellent:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/03/britain-being-led-to-epic-act-self-harm-brexit

    Must rush now, have to iron the Union Jack beach towels …………

    • Sally

      Have a great (British) break Mrs R. If you hold a copy of the Eagle Annual c1953 up to your face at all times you won’t risk seeing any of those inferior non -Brits, let alone hazard their art ,culture ,courtesies or God forbid ,cuisine.
      It would be very wrong to be put in mind of the Derek and Clive song “jump” when thinking of any posters you may leave behind.

    • RiversideVoter

      I nearly posted that article! I reckon Will Hutton read my comment, or just maybe it is plain bloody common sense…..

      Have a great time in forrin lands, hopefully there will be a small corner of that forrin land that serves warm beer and a full English where you can get respite from Germans seeking world domination by putting their towels on all the sun loungers, or even worse libdems sat around their villa pools drinking French wine and plotting unspeakable acts to undermine the true Brits defending our demokratic right. As the Russian embassy, the owners after all of demokracy with a k, put it “Strong & stable government for our transformative time + end of ideology – a welcome convergence/fusion across Euro-Atlantic.”

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Happy hols! Get those towels on the sunbed early!

  15. demokrat

    Remainers are you prepared, out of your own personal funds, to support an unlimited number of people from anywhere in the world, coming to the UK. If not, don’t ask the rest of the country to do it.

    I do a lot of work for charity, give my time to help others and care a lot about people from all backgrounds. But this country has not the resources to accept the 5 Billion people that are in poverty across the world and if we did, then we would be bankrupt overnight, so how many is too many???

    And which party is the more likely to be sensible about cutting over-population?

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Dunno, o wise one, tell me ……..

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Couple of questions, dem, as you like to ask a lot yourself:
      1. What do you think should happen to ‘traitors’?
      2. Have you read Labour’s manifesto proposals on mental health care?

    • anonymouse

      Well Bazza, its not the Tories!
      Theresa May’s had many years as Home Sec & PM to reduce immigration to the Tory target of 100k pa.
      It’s currently at 250k pa. So not even close. Still she’s so unfamiliar and uncomfortable with numbers she probably thinks she’s overachieved!
      Now the Tories talk of reducing it to 10s of 1000s. Very cunning, as they can claim to have already reduced it to just 25x 10s of 1000s (ie 250k).

    • Paul

      1) Total population of the EU is 731 million, which is less than one billion. There are one or two nice places in Europe and I suspect that one or two may not want to come to the UK to hear your words of wisdom.

      2) EU countries, which at the moment include the UK, have the right to remove other EU nationals from their country if they cannot support themselves.

      3) Because of your vote, and the resulting fall in the pound, it is no longer worthwhile many EU migrants coming to the UK to work. One of the consequences is that Romanian and Bulgarian students are stopping coming to the country to pick fruit and vegetables.

      Fruit and vegetables are likely to rot on British farms and the supermarkets will be importing more from other EU countries. Expect food prices to rise much faster than the fall in the pound.

      4) You are getting your wish. EU nurses and doctors are leaving the UK at three times the rate they are being recruited. Please do not get ill. Do not need a carer.

      Question. Why do you spell the word, in English, ‘Democrat’ in the French or German way ‘Demokrat’? Perhaps part of your is secretly a Remainer.

    • Bishop Waldhere

      Am I missing something? Since when did membership of EU mean an unlimited number of people from anywhere in the world coming to live in the U.K.? Is there a fifth freedom that I didn’t know about?

    • Alexis

      Having urged fellow posters to starve Mr Edwards of his lifeblood by ignoring him, I find myself unable to ignore this little cracker which was buried in one of his interminable posts:

      “As for Gareth Roberts, he is the above incarnate and is probably Alexis writing narcissistic drivel about himself !!!! An elder statesman with a certain degree of gravitas? You are having a giraffe……..” Well spotted Mr Edwards – doh! I bet no-one else realised I was being a tad tongue-in-cheek. Or did they?

      Whilst I am well aware that this forum has very many LibDem supporters and activists who regularly post, I am not one of them anymore and will not be voting for Vince Cable. I would welcome a viable opposition but there simply isn’t one unless the minor parties and Labour can form a coalition. Remember the disaster that was the Lib-Lab pact of the ‘70’s? What chance of that given the ego’s and hidden agenda’s of the party leaders?
      What can Vince do for us if re-elected apart from bleat from the back benches? Remember that he famously refused to get involved in the Twickenham Riverside sell-off because he doesn’t get involved in local issues, although that may have had something to do with the fact that the LibDems were running the Council at the time and Lourie and Williams were quite determined to flog it off.
      That’s when I finally realised quite how nasty the LibDems were.
      Alexis

    • Simon

      Hmm … bit too facile to suggest views here are a neat binary split between UKIPper par excellence and LibDems. I for one vote for whomever I see as the best option at any given time, eschewing the narrow minded, bigots, arch-nationalists and the exclusive who would divide our society. That leaves me a range of options, from which I make my choice Which varies at various times. Bet that goes for many others here, too.

    • Sally

      Never fear ,Alexis. Our fuming landscaper was, I think, smarting about Gareth Roberts describing Demokrat’s offerings as “bilge” on Twitter. He assumes you are Gareth Roberts. I was Gareth Roberts recently. Who will next be Spartacus ?
      Mr Edwards assumes all raspberries he receives can only ever come from a sinister lib dem clique . The untuored eye would not look at your posts and see a Lib Dem fan; it takes Mr E’s powers of discernment .
      Take heart, you have at least been promoted-not so long ago he described you as merely a lib dem agitator, now you are apparently a Lib Dem Councillor.! Soon you will be Vince Cable.

    • RiversideVoter

      Absolutely Simon but I suspect some prefer the comfort of their tribe and the binary, you are either with them or against them. Not sure whether it is regarded as worse to be Libdem or German, neither seems so bad to me because we are all human and well, we have more in common in this little suburban corner, you know stuff like walks on the riverside and in the parks (hopefully not blighted by Nero’s palace or boathouse), ferry rides to the other side, the invasion of rugby crowds who bring song and support our richness of restaurants but leave lakes of piss, bread from Reubens, fish from Sandy’s, than divide us. And we should all learn from recent events it is better to be united than divided……

    • Simon

      ‘Simon’??

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      You all got off lightly from Mr. Edward’s latest tirades. He wants me deported.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Alex – i have read and considered your post but have decided to give you a down tick. Apologies for this but i will explain why. The Conservatives are playing a rather silly game, invoking article 50 and then calling an election on the pretext that Mrs. May will have a strong negotiating hand as the country stands firm behind ‘strong and stable May’. A more sensible course of action would be to have the election first and then the electorate would be able to choose a govt. to invoke article 50 and then negotiate. i also find it insulting to my intelligence that Mrs. May is playing the ‘negotiations start on June 18th’ card and therefore it is best to choose the negotiating team that is in situ. The govt. have set the timetable not the other way round!

      Secondly you say – “I would welcome a viable opposition but there simply isn’t one unless the minor parties and Labour can form a coalition.” Well surely that is the opportunity we have on Thursday? In the local constituency there is no other choice than to vote Lib Dem if you have doubts about brexit. Also it is hard to know what one would be actually voting for by voting Conservative as they seem very eager not to give any details, costings or a clear vision for the country other than meaningless soundbites.

      Thirdly – Local politics is a different ball game to national politics. Yes the Twick riverside was a disaster and many people were against it including off message Lib Dems. In 2010 I voted Green in the local election and Lib Dem in the national election.

      Finally – if in all good conciousness you believe brexit is a good thing and that Mrs. May will make a success of it then of course you should vote Conservative. Surely there is enough evidence to suggest that brexit is looking like a disaster and saner minds should prevail. In my opinion the whole brexit referendum debacle has been caused by the tory split between the hard right and the more moderate, and the need to regain ukip votes and in turn weaken ukip. The referendum itself was fought on such an asinine level to actually be an afront to democracy and truth. This is not so much our future but the future for young people and young people’s future is in my opinion in a united and strong Europe. The problems young people and indeed all people of this country may face have been cause by domestic govt. not the EU.

      I think it is unlikely i will sway you and indeed you may even have voted already. My only suggestion is to discuss the matter with younger people if you have not done so already.

      NB – i am not a lifelong Lib Dem only joining the party last year but will admit voting to Lib Dem in most elections. Have never Conservative in my life.

      btw – i always enjoy your posts and consider you a good egg but on this matter I must disagree.

    • Queby

      I’m voting Conservative because the alternative is even worse. Sad situation but there we go!

    • Alexis

      Fair comment E-TR and don’t worry about the thumb down – I can hack it!

      As far as a potential coalition of opposition to the Tories is concerned, think about the potential players and be worried:
      Labour: Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott, Thornberry?
      SNP: Sturgeon?
      LibDem: Farron, possibly Davey, Cable?
      Green: Lucas, already in a “progressive alliance” with LibDems
      UKIP: Probably gone and unlamented, but, Nuttall!

      As an ordinary unsophisticated punter, that’s why I am worried for the future – the thought of any of these people having a say in controlling the economy and my family’s future prosperity fills me with dread. That view is shared by the younger members of my family as well. Heaven help us if there is a hung parliament and this shower end up running the show

      As to Brexit: Our family all voted remain however the referendum was botched and, sadly, I don’t see much likelihood of a re-run even if Vince is re-elected. That’s democracy for you and perhaps we have to live with the consequences. On balance I think there are enough wise heads in the Tory party to rein in the hotheads like Davis unlike the bizarre coalition I suggest above will probably still be squabbling by the next election.

      The Tory campaign has been botched, hubris is often fatal and they have done their best to alienate their supporters, but, on balance they remain the least worst option – in my view.
      Alexis (good egg – I like that!)

    • demokrat

      Bot 1 – Currently only the Tories are the only party committed to reducing population increase and have the means to limit this over-population, if you could be more Jekyll and less Hyde, you might actually learn something.

      Bot 2 – They should choose for themselves what they do in their lives, the Spanish inquisition is long gone, but their irrational ranting is annoying for people that have had family members that fought hard to keep this country free from foreign rule. I would ask what the general public what they think should be done. I have put this on my list of questions.

      Bot 3 – Not read, because you have to prioritise. If you have no sovereignty, you have country and no ability to make laws, therefore Labour planning to remain will not allow any of its manifesto to take place. For the last 40 years they have done nothing to help with mental health, they are not likely to suddenly start now.
      .

    • Simon

      On a point of detail, the Conservatives have been committed to lowering net migration since 2010 and have failed spectacularly to do so. Why should the electorate trust Mrs May to start delivering on this now, having already seen her fail to do this for six years as Home Sec and another one as PM?

    • RiversideVoter

      A lot of botching by the Conservatives there *Alexis*. I spot a pattern. Problem is that they will be in power come Thursday, Labour would have to gain another 12 points in the polls to win and even May can’t botch it that much, can she? Granted, she is giving it a good try.

      To be honest having been brought up not to jump off a cliff if I am told to, some squabbling on the brink with some sensible voices having influence (and as well as Cable, remember there is Starmer, Umunna, and Lammy who all talk sense about Brexit) strikes me as better than a strong and stable bluekip march led by May, Davis, Boris and Fox (what has happened to the voices of Hammond? Soubrey? Clarke? let alone Matthias, in this election? silenced ) over the cliff to a botched Brexit…….

    • demokrat

      Annoyingmouth – Teresa May did do rubbish, but Labour caused the problem in the first place by ratifying 2004/38/EC – http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutparliament/en/displayFtu.html?ftuId=FTU_2.1.3.html
      Read the whole thing because they always add the best bit at the end, which is what they are really up to, which is quote “Parliament has long fought hard to uphold the right to free movement, which it regards as a core principle of the European Union”. Yes European Union – One country called the EU !!!!

      But at this time May has seen the error of her ways, made a new commitment to this and we will all be checking on her, so likelihood now, is that she will do it,. All the other parties want over-population

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Riverside Voter and Alex – I have been particularly impressed with Barry Gardiner these last few months and thought he was very good on QT on Thursday. There are some wise heads in the Labour party and rather than a coalition of chaos think they would make a coalition of the sensible. It would be interesting to see a Labour led coalition govt. supported by the Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru and Greens.

    • demokrat

      Paul,
      Answer, because actually the word is from Greek – Demos Kratos – power to people, that would mean in your terms, a part of everyone is in me. But the bit that can see what the EUpeans want, to run the UK without having to fire a single bullet, does not sit well with me. But if everyone voted that way, I would have gone with the majority, or left, my choice. However the vote was for leave, so I cannot stand the rise of these politically correct virtual signallers, telling everyone one else how they should think and how they should have voted. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/hating-the-daily-mail-is-a-substitute-for-doing-good/

      This is in fact a form of covert form of brainwashing, which in many ways it is as dangerous any crime, as it is surmount to “mental terrorism”.

      I believe in live and let live, let’s hear the arguments and the basis on which they hold standing. Unfortunately the virtue signallers only believe in their own right to judge, as do many on this site, so they are self-prophetic, only interested in their own opinion, rather than the logic of reason.

      You can’t make good judgements under those conditions. Good leadership is not about telling people what to do, it is about being in command of the facts and seeing who follows you.

    • Simon

      So you would have left, eh? Where to, pray? Elsewhere in the U.K and you would still have been in the same country and the same situation. So the only other option would have been abroad, i.e. becoming one of those very same immigrants you so revile.

      Hmmmmmm

    • demokrat

      Do you know – not a single one of you to quote Simon “narrow minded, bigots, arch-nationalists and the exclusive who would divide our society” have recognised that its you. Yes you that are the problem, you are trying to divide society by not accepting the result of the referendum and want to spread fear and insults on everyone that does not agree exactly with you. Well move on, the vote has been taken and the majority said no EU.

      Sally – you’re just a total fruit job.

      Ex Twick – do you understand what this Article 50 you and many others talk about really is? Yes the Defunct European Constitution. Which was supposed to have been thrown away.
      http://europa.eu/european-union/sites/europaeu/files/docs/body/treaty_establishing_a_constitution_for_europe_en.pdf

      TREATY ESTABLISHING A CONSTITUTION FOR EUROPE
      Luxembourg: Office for Official Publications of the European Communities, 2005
      ISBN 92-824-3100-2
      © European Communities, 2005 Reproduction is authorised provided the source is acknowledged.
      Printed in Belgium

      Article I-60
      Voluntary withdrawal from the Union 1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. 2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article III-325(3). It shall be concluded by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament. 3. The Constitution shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period. 4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in European decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72 % of the members of the Council, representing the participating Member States, comprising at least 65 % of the population of these States. 5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to re-join, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article I-58.

      This old, none legal document has been re-incarnated into a Treaty, Every country in the EU voted against the idea of a Constitution, but here it still is.

      And how could you have possibly voted Green !!! I am a qualified environmentalist and here’s the problem. They should know that only people have a carbon footprint, so the more people in the UK increases our national carbon footprint. They don’t even understand the difference between sustainability and conservation!! They want unlimited numbers of people coming to the UK and 500,000 new houses to be build, this just sounds like greedy property developers.

      Finally you are the problem, you cannot see it but your way, is virtue signalling. Who said that you were right? Oh yes you did. Your arrogance is complete.

      I have children mate, they tell be what they thing of politicians and people like you. Young people don’t want or need your help. They know what they are doing and don’t need indoctrination, Try your brainwashing elsewhere. I knew you were a Dirty Dem.

    • Simon

      It. Wasn’t. A. Majority. It. Was. 37%. Of. The. Total. Electorate.

      Is that strong and stable and clear enough? Or am I being a Bloody Difficult Man?

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Alex – here is an interesting article to be considered. And yes i know it is biased, but it has merit.

      https://www.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-election-campaign

  16. Nemesis

    According to opinion polls (not that they are reliable these days) around 70% are now reconciled to the idea of Brexit. Some noticed that the sky didn’t fall in the day after the referendum and others, quite reasonably have decided to adapt to the new reality and just want to get on with it so they can plan ahead.
    Sure there will be winners and some losers. This is a dynamic world and circumstances constantly change. Losers can winger and protest all they want and are entitled to do so but perhaps should bear in mind that the EU will become increasingly federalist, bossy and remote. The ‘stick in the muds’ will be increasingly ignored.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      And other opinion polls say 56% would vote Remain today. Let’s see the deal shall we and then decide?

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Hate to tell you and the 70% this, but that was the referendum. Brexit is the bit when we’ve left. As no one has a clue quite how bad the consequences will be they’d be pretty stupid to feel reconciled to them. If anyone expected the sky to fall in after the referendum then they didn’t really have much of a grip on what it was all about (which bears out that post-ref BBC research which found that the statistically distinguishing features of Leave voters were 1. old age 2. (lack of) higher education.
      That pattern is reflected on this site where the one long, detailed, intellectually rigorous , evidence-supported contribution has been Paul’s very long pro-Remain piece. It might help the 70% if they were to read it rather than mumbling the Daily Mail mantras of ‘remoaners’ and ‘scaremongering’ fed them by billionaire press owners who pay no UK taxes and couldn’t give a damn for the people they are feeding this pap.

    • Nemesis

      “Leavers are old, thick, lower class, Daily Mail readers”
      Ah, there you go again Mrs Robot, winning hearts and minds!

    • Simon

      A ltather sweeping judgement, I grant you. But, just to offer the same kind of thought but in a less stark way, how many Leavers do you know (or have you seen on the telly) who definitely are NONE of those four things?

      If it’s got a leg in each corner and barks, it might not be a domestic pooch but chances are it is a member of the dog family…

    • Riverside Voter

      Hmmmmmmm.

      The sky did not fall in the day after the referendum, true. But then we had not left the EU. Indeed it turned out that there was no plan to leave the EU and almost a year on and with 11 days to go to the start of negotiations there is still no plan or at least no plan that would be given that name in any other walk of life. Mrs May has of course issued a white paper, given speeches and just recently published a plan / list of wishes in an attempt to convince us there is a plan. I quote just four of her points

      1. Provide certainty and clarity.
      3. Strengthen the union.
      5. Control immigration.
      12. Deliver a smooth orderly exit from the EU.

      Well phew, because obviously if there was not this “plan” we would be aiming for uncertainty, confusion, obfuscation and as a Guardian journalist put it a disorderly rush to the emergency Brexits. If this is now the benchmark for planning, getting the manager at Barclays to fund my plan to open a coffee shop in the death zone of Heath Road selling a range of fruit flavoured coffees is going to be a breeze…….

      However meanwhile the EU have set it all out for all to see, the red lines, the areas for concession, the detailed list of points for negotiation, like skilled negotiators do. It is clear to achieve point 5 we will have to leave the customs union, as May has said we will, but where are the actual plans for that, to beef up the border agency and its processes and IT to handle all the paperwork of Britain being a third country and stop the M20 becoming a lorry park again in just shy of two years. Davis “We haven’t looked at that yet”.

      I know it is all very boring but the devil is always in the detail and May and her friends just keep parroting strong and stable and providing no detail whatsoever.

      Nemesis. A lot of people in Twickenham work in financial services, creative industries, science, tech, academia. I suggest you have a word with them about the actual detailed effect that the prospect of the loss of financial passporting, full membership of EU Science networks, both regulatory and funding, the controls on the number of overseas students, the departure of EU academics (13% so far) and all the other benefits of membership of the single market that we are leaving behind apparently in a rush to the Brexits is already having, let alone will have…. I think you will find a lot of worried people and I am certainly not going to risk opening my coffee shop, though it has a wonderful future ahead of it, if I just believe in it enough, when all our livelihoods are at such a risk.

      Yes, let’s see what the deal actually is.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      That’s enough facts and reasoned argument thank you very much, Riverside Voter. You’re dangerously close to sounding like one of those ‘experts’ that Mr Gove warned us about.

      And Simon. There are some who don’t fit into those categories, Rees-Mogg, Cash, Redwood and so on (the long-term one- issue obsessives, Major’s ‘bastards’) plus those. like Johnson, Gove and Fox who are simply on the make.

    • Simon

      Nah – busted. All and any senior Tory politician is/are in thrall to what the Daily Mail is saying, or might say. Like I said, one out four traits.

    • Riverside Voter

      Update: “Magic money tree” is the spin of the day in place of “strong and stable”. Where indeed is this magic money tree that will pay for all the costs, the departments, the advisers, the lawyers, the negotiators, the unnecessary snap elections (that Mummy must now regret) and above all the economic impact of Brexit?

      Mind you if I was an unprincipled multi – millionaire who didn’t care a fig for the welfare state, education system, or NHS (indeed sees them as a business opportunity) or the economic prosperity of our nation and just wants to pay less tax and make more money at the expense of the rest of us I would be looking at that nice green money tree that the Conservatives have on their logo.

    • Nemesis

      Ex Twick; like I said, opinion polls can be unreliable but my point stands that survivors tend to be the ones most amenable to adapting to change.
      I do think the standard of debate, on recent issues and on all sides has been very poor. Hectoring, emotive, ad-homs. Etc. Saul Alinsky would be proud. Nor is it helpful to label people and put them into boxes. FYI my 94 year old neighbour, tribal tory, middle class and avid Mail reader is the fiercest remainer I know.
      I no longer have loyalties to a political class or media outlet. I generally ignore the hyperbole, assertions and speculations of idealists that have little demonstrable knowledge of history, economics or human nature.
      Agree Riverside Voter, about the lack of preparedness for an exit strategy . They are having to catch up pretty quickly but David Davies gives a strong impression of being on top of his brief.
      Well, the sun is out and it is a lovely day, so that’s all for now.

    • demokrat

      Ex Twick why don’t you just go and live in Germany, it would be far better for all of us and the country as a whole, you are a traitor to being British and are just trying to destroy the UK.

      You give away your own home away, you have all the growing population in your back yard, you pay for increasing bills for social care, schools places, NHS etc etc. but don’t offer to have unlimited numbers from anywhere in the world and then asking the rest of us to pay for it.

      You are an idiot, where do you think the money will come from to pay for ever increasing pressures on services caused by over-population???? Oh yes forgot Corbyn’s magic money tree, or Farron’s punitive communist tax rises.

      Ex Twick you may be able to pay for all this because you’re rich, but the rest of the country realistically realises that we have to live within our means.

  17. Gladiator

    When all is said and done, no amount of cross letters or expressions of disappointment will make mr trump change his mind. He is a democratically elected president doing
    What he said he would. Much though we may deplore his decision, complaints about it amount to empty gestures. I am reminded of the lyric of the song in My Fair Lady, ” show me”, that starts “words, words, words…”

  18. Ex-Twickenham Resident

    I have to admit that over on this side of the river I am a little confused. In 2010 Heathrow expansion was off the table as the Tories had explicitly stated that it would be cancelled. Zac was first elected MP in 2010. Since 2010 Heathrow expansion has gradually been put on the agenda and now is in the manifesto as a Tory policy. Zac claims he will fight the expansion and yet in the period 2010 – Dec 2016 it has gone from a cancelled project to Tory policy. It would seem that Zac has been completely ineffective in fighting expansion and completely ignored. I myself would resign. Oh – but he did. But here he is back again in the Tory fold, fighting for the party that has the policy in its manifesto and he somehow thinks he can be effective in fighting this expansion. In short – under Zac expansion has gone from off the table to full Conservative policy. I hate to think what ineffective campaigning would have produced!

    • Simon

      This is also the Party whose leader suggests that what many observers saw as a humiliating climb down cum 180 degree turnaround = ‘nothing has changed’. Go figure.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      “This, said Squealer, was something called tactics. He repeated a number of times, “Tactics, comrades, tactics!” skipping round and whisking his tail with a merry laugh. The animals were not certain what the word meant, but Squealer spoke so persuasively, and the three dogs who happened to be with him growled so threateningly, that they accepted his explanation without further questions.”

      ― George Orwell, Animal Farm

  19. A. Robot (Mrs)

    Twickenham voters!
    Don’t let Corbyn in. I just watched Question Time and he said he wouldn’t be in favour of SECOND use of nuclear weapons (not first, that’s a different question).
    This means that if Kim Jong Un had decided that he’d had enough of red-trousered Henrys in identical black Range Rovers and had just wiped out everything from Notting Hill to Cornwall’s Rock (believing it was worth it, even if he and the rest of North Korea would then be reduced to a charcoal briquette by the US), Corbyn STILL wouldn’t be prepared to ask the US if we could please use our independent nuclear deterrent to slaughter a few million North Koreans in order to make those of us who’d survived feel a little better during the radioactive permafrost decades to come.
    What a bloody wimp!
    Vote Conservative. Vote Bonehead!

  20. Riverside Voter

    Although the shit hot reporters of Richmond and Twickenham Times have yet to notice that Theresa May was in Twickenham over the Bank Holiday, to be fair it was also missed by 99.99% of the voters of Twickers too, they have at least done a live blog of the election hustings.

    Lord True representing an absent Zac was introduced as the Amber Rudd of Twickenham……..(which is conjuring some interesting mental images which I just can’t rinse from my mind)

    http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15323263.Richmond_Chamber_of_Commerce_general_election_hustings___as_it_happened/

    They have also set out the positions of the candidates http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15322693.General_Election_2017__Richmond_Park_and_Twickenham_s_leading_candidates__views_on_the_issues_affecting_the_election/

    It is a shame that Tania did not get a chance to lay out her position formally in the article but in the hustings she confirmed she will continue to pursue the rights of the citizens of EU countries living here but otherwise it is implicit she will support the government policy on Brexit, including immigration control and leaving the single markets and customs area. Vince Cable explicitly says “People’s livelihoods tied up to the result of negotiations and lots of people are concerned about the loss of single trading.”

    “A lot of people’s futures are at stake especially in this area because there are a lot of people commuting in and out of central London.”

    In the hustings it is reported “Sir Vince wants to challenge the ‘extreme Brexit’ the government is pursuing. He refers to the area’s reliance on universities and research, which he claims could suffer.

    The start-ups here, he says, depend on operating within the Single Market. He gets the loudest applause.”

    For a moderate I am also disappointed in her responses on education, social care and the NHS which I would expect her to be more outspoken in her criticism of government policy. However that of course may be the reporting…..

    • Queby

      We usually have to vote for the ‘best of a bad choice’. This time it’s just the ‘least worse’. The thought of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott being in charge really scares me!

    • Riverside Voter

      To be fair Queby I think that here in Twickers we have a choice of two very good candidates in terms of their personal qualities and ability to serve us as local MPs. Both have track records of campaigning, sometimes effectively, on local issues, though Tania could have sorted out her office to be more responsive.

      At national level I agree that it is the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea, though if you look at the actual seats and numbers I would not waste energy worrying Corbyn is going to be in Number Ten. It is about how big a majority May has. Or rather, if she continues to be weak and wobbly and her majority reduces in line with her drop in the polls, whoever has stabbed her in the back and, as Anonymous predicts, sent Mummy back to Egypt (credit). Boris? Gove? Loathsome? Some lesser known and even worse calibre of muppet? Now that is the stuff of nightmares…

      All we can do is vote somebody sensible in who has the gravitas and skill to speak up effectively for us…..

  21. Sally

    France, Italy and Germany have written a joint letter to Trump condemning his decision to pull out of the Climate Change agreement. It appears Mrs May has refused. (BBC news today) This seems impossible to justify. I wonder how they will try?

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      It might jeopardise the state visit planned for October.

    • Riverside Voter

      I think May is pleading election purdah again. The courts have already slapped her wrist for using that excuse once though.

    • Paul

      I think the government’s priority is to do anything to get some sort of free trade deal with Trump.

      I note that to please the Americans Boris Johnson cancelled his trip to Moscow. This was to be a trip to thaw relations with Russia and would have been a prelude to trade etc.

      A few weeks later at the G7 conference Boris Johnson was the mouthpiece for the Americans calling for increased sanctions on Russia. His plea was dismissed by the conference.

      Both of these acts harm the UK’s position in the post-Brexit world. We need to build our trading links with Russia and we need to be respected by the other major trading nations.

      My fear is that May is throwing away our goodwill with the EU, and the rest of the world, for a deal with Trump’s America. This means that she cannot criticise him – no matter what he does.

      I also note that Liam Fox, set up, a few years ago, an organisation ‘Atlantic Bridge’ which linked prominent Conservatives with the right wing of America, including the financial backers of the ‘Tea Party’ and Trump.

      One of their concerns is climate change denial as it affects the profits of oil and mining companies.

      I am therefore not surprised that Mrs May is not joining the rest of the world in condemning Trump’s withdrawal from the Paris Agreement.

    • aristophanes

      From the BBC website today: ” UK Prime Minister Theresa May expressed her disappointment and told Mr Trump in a phone call that the deal protects the “prosperity and security of future generations”
      Please get it right

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Aristotophanes – I presume you are referring to Sally’s comment. Sally did get it right as Mrs. Mayhem did not sign the letter. Instead she telephoned Trump independently. Convfefe!

    • Riverside Voter

      Aristophanes, Mrs May refused to sign the joint letter from EU leaders condemning Trumps decision to pull out of the Paris Agreement. What did Sally fail to get right?

      A schoolmarm letter from an isolated leader saying she is disappointed is in an entirely different league of response.

    • Simon

      Bottom line, should you condemn a selfish nationalist action by a leader likely to damage our planet irreversibly, or do you find such an action disappointing? How people react is just as telling as the deed itself.

      Hats off, meanwhile, to Pres Macron for his cheeky tweeted reaction ‘Make our planet great again’, in English. Apparently, he speaks at least TWO languages more fluently than the Leader of the Free World. Who knew?

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      ‘Disappointment’, eh?
      1. this hardly meets the gravity of the situation (apart from being another robotic response from the lobotomised one)
      2. disappointment does not simply mean (even very weak) displeasure, it means that something fails to meet an expectation. It’s been well-reported for weeks that Trump would do this (it was even, for what it’s worth, a Trump election ‘pledge’). If May was expecting any other Trump action then she doesn’t really know what’s going on.
      Is there anything going on behind those dead eyes I wonder ………

    • anonymouse

      I think Mummy’s counting down the days, hours and minutes until the ordeal is over, desperately wishing she could turn back the clock and blunder on as an unelected leader rather than unelectable one.

  22. anonymouse

    You’ve got to admire Brexit Barry’s persistence.
    To be rejected in three different council elections, and in one general election (remember scootergate), and then to come back for more is quite remarkable.
    So far he’s had a go as an Independent (apparently helping LibDems overturn Tories), a Tory, and a Kipper. He failed miserably in all elections.
    Now he’s backing the Tories before regenerating as an unliberal ‘demokrat’.
    By my reckoning he’s on par with Theresa May for his number of u-turns!
    With such a track record in Twickenham and LBRuT you’d think he’d have taken the, less than subtle, hint that he’s not wanted here.
    I really don’t understand why he hasn’t either given up or moved on elsewhere – such as to his home/business town & borough of Isleworth & Hounslow where he’s presumably got less of a reputation.
    Perhaps he can explain why he persists pestering us in Twickenham?

    • anonymouse

      For clarification: …moved his political aspirations on elsewhere…

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      On his amusing website, Mr Edwards says of himself: ‘Between 1980 and 2006 he (sic) didn’t vote because he was ‘disillusioned’ with politics.’
      He doesn’t mention what his illusions were before he lost them but it seems a little odd to have spent 26 years without any political interest whatsoever and then to suddenly become the very right-wing chap he now appears to be (Ukip, xenophobia, extreme nationalism, simple solutions to complicated questions, referenda/ums/, plebiscites etc). Maybe he was just a bit busy for 26 years.
      A sizeable number of Ukip activists found their way to that party via the extreme right of the 80s and 90s. Farage himself was apparently very pleased, as a young man, with his initials. Nothing wrong with that if you like that sort of thing. Perfectly legal in a liberal democracy. Pity they don’t talk about it more, though. After all, it does put what they claim as their ‘patriotism’ in a bit of a clearer context,

    • Alexis

      Well said Anonymouse.
      I have enormous admiration for those like Paul who have tried their best to hold a reasoned discussion with Mr Edwards aka Demokrat. Sadly it’s pointless, as I discovered to my cost, having once tried to help him get elected as a Tory Councillor in Teddington.
      In his world, there is only one person who matters and that is Mr Edwards, so there is no point in debating, reasoning or insulting him, it simply boosts his ego and encourages him to pour out yet another weird diatribe.
      I suspect he feeds on the opprobrium, so why not just ignore him? That would stop him taking over yet another political thread, at least for one more week!
      Alexis.

    • Alexis

      I have just made the mistake of watching the last half of LibDem leader Tim Farron’s “interview” with Andrew Neill on C4. If anything would convince me to never again vote LibDem – that was it!

      I watched his equally shouty, man of the people, stuff on the BBC1 debate last night and thought I would give him the benefit of the doubt. Silly me.

      Sorry about that Sir Vince. Perhaps the LibDems would do better with the more measured tones of Gareth Roberts, our local hotshot party leader? After all, he’s now cast off his warrior status and has become something of an elder statesman with a certain degree of gravitas.
      Alexis.

    • RiversideVoter

      Whenever Demokrat (I had already wondered if it is a Cyrillic k, more so today) posts it reminds me of the UKIP battlebus in the live satire they did during the 2015 election, Ballot Monkeys, The embattled UKIP campaign manager had a big board of names of candidates which he kept having to mark up for suspension, “after the royal baby drops”, after they had crossed the line into the obnoxious, racist, sexist, crass, stupid or just plain bonkers……

    • Anonymous

      Yes, Barry Demokrat is the man who just won’t go home. Have Isleworth closed the boarder?
      He spouts the usual Kipperish fantasies about WW2 and Our Brave Lads (Who would, to a man, have told him to piss off). Doubtless he types wearing a mock aviator’s helmet.
      These tiny dreams about being somehow a continuation of the Battle of Britain are a bit rich when the Kippers’ beliefs so closly match the other side. A collection of chancers, fanatics and failures being told that all,problems personal and national were due to the plots of outsiders who should be cast out. Corrupt nobodies elevated to power. Which WW2 side offered that’ again?
      Back on Earth Trump has just left the Paris agreement. May has so far refused to criticise this. If ever we needed to be in unity with Europe it is now.

    • Simon

      Indeed. I must confess I never got that whole ‘take back control’ schtick. It struck me the Kippers and their ilk were hankering nostalgically after an England that never actually existed. Your comment that their base (both senses) views are closer to ‘the other side’ than they are to The Few and what they fought for is a sharp observation.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Careful, anon, the first 27 letters of your post will be selectively quoted as a recommendation in the traditional way of film or theatre advertising. Do you want to be the man/woman(/non-binary) who is forever remembered for saying: ‘You have to admire Barry Brexit’?

    • anonymouse

      Fair point Mrs Robot. I shouldn’t have stepped into that mousetrap!

      It’s just occurred to me that Bazza, the green-fingered environmental scientist, who lives under the Heathrow flight path is backing Theresa Mary’s Heathrow expansion manifesto for 50% more flights and 50% more traffic (passenger & freight).
      He’s clearly a man of many Con-tradictions.

    • demokrat

      Amazing, how a few really vociferous individuals can try and wreck the lives of everyone. You people are anti-UK, anti-democratic and frankly more than a little deranged.

      I am supporting keeping the UK as a country, getting the UK Parliament to make its own decision for the benefit of Britain and to create an environment where the country is run for the benefit of the people that live in it..

      To not want this, you people are either completely brainwashed by political parties, or seriously need some mental health professionals.

      I am not for right-winging anything, I joined UKIP because they were the only party at the time, that actually had a foreign policy that controlled population numbers. No U-turns here and its seems I am in the majority.

      If you people like over-population, then let the increasing numbers live in your homes, the country is full and all our public services are over-loaded. This is not because of any dislike of foreigners, if indigenous UK birth rates were soaring, I would also be against that.

      Any normal human being knows that the principal threat to survival is too many people, more mouths to feed, more houses to build, more school places, more NHS beds, where is this going to end? Well with everyone suffering.

      Between 1970 and 1995 the population of the UK was stable at 56million. Now it is putting on each year a city the size of Newcastle – currently at 63million with a growth rate of 1%. That means there will be 126 million by 2077 and 252 million by 2147. This is not about race, colour or creed, its about how many people can have a great lifestyle and a good standard of living, without everything running out. Yes I am a proper Environmentalist, one that is a systems analyst, understanding the complications and Resources and populations. The Greens are not environmentalist – the biggest problem to carbon foot-print is people, so they should agree with my assessment, but the do not.

      See what Sir David Attenborough has to say on this subject:
      Population – People & Planet
      http://www.barryedwards.info/?page_id=56

      So before you rant at me, tell me how many people do you think the UK can hold? I have worked out the exact figure based on the total of fresh water availability in the UK. (yes their is desalination, but this could not cope with increasing number either due to cost).

      Come on how many? I’ll give you a clue, London runs out of fresh water at 22million, at current growth rates, this is expected to happen by 2092.

      I hope that all you lot are not the types that say, I’ll be dead by then, because thinking that way is just irresponsible.

      And by the way Mr Teddington helper, what were the numbers of Tory votes in 2006, compared to those when I stood in 2010?

    • Simon

      Gee whizz. Another paperback novel who doesn’t put the ‘tator’ into ‘dictator’. Anyone who can struggle as far as the ‘David Attenborough says’ bit without already having felt the urge to reach for the drinks cabinet gets my admiration.

      I’m still puzzled, however, how and why those who genuinely care about a country, and value the freedom to disagree, are enemies of said country and democracy if they hold objective views contrary to their accuser. Isn’t that closer to faskism than demokracy?
      But, hey, I guess I’m just another ol’ deranged UK- and democracy-hater.

    • anonymouse

      Thanks Bazza for all the threats, accusations and abuse. You are showing your true colours.
      Can you explain how your memberless ‘party for the people’ will work? Presumably it’ll be a private party…for the one and lonely Bazza Brexit.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Mr. Edwards writes – “So before you rant at me, tell me how many people do you think the UK can hold? I have worked out the exact figure based on the total of fresh water availability in the UK.”

      As Mr. Edwards was unable to correctly work out the percentage increase of the ukip vote in Twickenham from the 2010 election to the 2015 election, I hope he will excuse me if I could ask if perhaps he would like to put his workings of his latest claim on his website so we can peruse the methodology and assumptions? He claims an ‘exact figure’ no less. No standard deviation or margin of error? I am sure there are many scientists who would take great interest in reading his ‘independent’ research paper. I am perhaps incorrectly assuming that this is his own work and not in collaboration? I wonder if the work has been peer reviewed? So Mr. Edwards will you put your research on your website? Perhaps as a .pdf file for download?

    • demokrat

      Ex Res, Annoy, Mrs Bot, Simon, Riverside Voter, different day same old Lib Dum crap.
      http://www.nastylibdems.org/2010/01/lib-dem-campaign-guide-be-wicked-act.html#comment-form “be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly”, “advises candidates to “exaggerate” claims and to use a range of other negative campaigning tactics”, “you can secure support from voters who normally vote Tory by being effectively anti-Labour and similarly in a Tory area secure Labour votes by being anti-Tory.” As for Gareth Roberts, he is the above incarnate and is probably Alexis writing narcissistic drivel about himself !!!! An elder statesman with a certain degree of gravitas? You are having a giraffe……..

      I will however answer Simon, you are anti-UK if you want to be run by a foreign power, e.g. the EU, (its not even a country), you are anti-democratic if you do not abide by the British electoral system (the country voted LEAVE, not soft, or hard, not single market, not customs union, not second vote on deal – none of the above just LEAVE) and you are very welcome to have whatever view you like, but if someone thinks what you are proposing is incoherent, you should try and find out why they would think that of your opinion and if you are wrong admit it, rather than just posting babyish insults.

    • Simon

      First of all, 63% of the eligible British electorate did not vote in last year’s Referendum to leave the EU. The 52% ‘majority’ represented the narrow majority of those who voted on the day, not a majority of the UK population.

      Second, a Referendum is completely different from an ‘electoral process’. The former is an Advisory Consultation process. No government is obliged to accept the outcome of such a vote, but it is accepted practice they recognise it.

      Third, the EU is a group of sovereign States, not a separate independent State like power. All its powers come from the will and agreement of those sovereign member States.

      Fourth, I wasn’t being childish, I was being childlike: expressing adult thoughts on an adult topic in a playful childlike manner.

    • Sally

      Good news Twickerati, Some lucky reader is about to win Barry Edwards bingo! Have your cards ready!

      Let’s see. We have had:

      1. Puerile and vicious name calling alternating with claims to want civilised discussion. (Note -when confronted with a polite and well reasoned argument such as from Paul ,Edwards folds.and runs off)

      2Asking loaded ,insult laden questions as if every argument can be presented as “Agree with the Great Thoughts of Barry or admit you hate England-for Barry alone is the People’s poet”

      3.Tin foil hattish claims to be an expert on world population, free of qualifications, or any academic post

      Sinister claims of a Lib Dem conspiracy to make him look silly, held even by posters who appear to be devout Tories.

      4.Claims that Germany is the Evil Empire and he alone can see these aliens need to be repelled

      5. Revolting attempts to claim to be using Attemborough’s views- Attenborough; a highly qualified ,accomplished beloved and brilliant man, in every way Edwards’ antithesis who takes great care to speak in favour of diversity and whos bins Edwards is not fit to empty.

      6. Claims to support democracy, -even with a K -but his love of democracy not extending to bowing to the clear will of the forum to go away and bother the people of Isleworth and Hounslow, where he lives.

      What is missing? I don’t mean Edwards’ insight . What is next? We haven’t done threats yet.

  23. demokrat

    Has nobody not noticed there has been a referendum that says we are leaving the EU? This means the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP are completely barmy, as they have not even acknowledged how this changes everything.

    The Labour party are dragging their heels and slowly waking up to this, but still think they could do a better deal than anyone, even though they still seem as if they wish to stay in the EU.

    The Conservatives are the only party that have been realistic and are practically getting on with meeting the challenge that the people have set them.

    There will only be one result fro this – a free trade agreement. This will mean there seems like there has been no change, everyone will still be able to do business as usual in Britain, across Europe and rest of the World. But the only difference will be that, we will still have our own country, we will be able to freely to trade with anyone without protectionist EU tariffs and we will have sovereignty back to Parliament. Happy days.

    And most importantly, we can then set about solving our own internal issues, like politicians not listening to us.

    I want more democracy not less, so I will be developing real direct democracy after the election, to hold these party politicians to account and to give power to people, as it is my belief, that you are better at making decisions about your own lives, than politicians.

    That’s the way to a brighter future, better democracy.

  24. Paul

    Sorry this is long.

    I am proud to be British, English, Celtic, (Irish and Welsh links), Anglo-Saxon, but I am also proud to be an Anglo-European. I also like the fact that I am a citizen of the world.

    I see no conflict with my being British or English and being European. I find it annoying that I am considered unpatriotic to be pro-EU and to oppose Brexit.

    I am 71. I had the honour of being born in 1946 – the year the Second World War ended. I lived through some remarkable years. The rebuilding of the economy, the construction of new homes, the birth of the NHS and a feeling of cooperation.

    The EU came out of the conflict. Churchill, a Conservative, voiced the idea of a ‘United States of Europe’. To build an entity to bring European nations together to reconstruct, to build their economies and to avoid wars.

    Around this era, the ‘European Convention on Human Rights’ was written. It was chaired by Sir David Maxwell-Fyfe, a judge at the Nuremberg Trails and a tough Conservative Home Secretary.

    The UK refused to join the original six countries forming the original Europan Common Market. It is clear that had the UK joined at that time that the Common Agricultural Policy would have been better developed and that the Commonwealth would have been linked to the market.

    By not joining the Common Market, by not investing in industry, and by the decline of the Empire, Britain’s economic performance declined.

    In 1973 the UK joined, what was then the EEC. In 1975 a referendum was held in which 67% voted to stay in.

    Beyond a couple of economic hiccups – Black Wednesday, and the 2008 bank crash, the British economy has done well. Productivity has improved, though we still lag way behind Germany and France,

    Our manufacturers are integrated into the wider EU supply chains, resulting in large-scale investment in the country. Our financial and service sectors have, in particular, thrived and London is now the dominant financial hub, not only in Europe, but the world.

    It should be noted that Margaret Thatcher was one of the strongest supporters of the expansion of the EU into the Eastern European states and was a champion of the Single Market, particularly as this helped the expansion of the British financial services market.

    In a survey done a few days ago among EU officials, Britain was reckoned to be the second or third most influential country after Germany and France. At present, the UK has the second largest economy within the area.

    Sadly within the Conservative Party, there has always been a strong faction of anti-European politicians. They often blame the EU for failings in our own political system or the failure of Britain to engage properly with the EU.

    To give a simple example the fridge mountain. The UK government would have been consulted on numerous occasions, over around seven years on the need to properly recycle fridges and freezers. The regulations would have been approved by British politicians and officials and UK representatives would have voted for the directive. The UK was the only country that had not build recycling centres in anticipation.

    The EU has many faults – it is a political organisation and I know of no political organisation that does not have and flaws. However, it strongly benefits British business by settling the legal ground rules for thirty countries directly and around another fifty through trade agreements.

    The dreaded EU directives, regulations and standards also improve the working conditions and environmental protection for all. Sure a packet of fish must contain a label warning that the package contains FISH, but the alternative is a thick manual listing thousands of exceptions to the rule than a shot list just listing which products need listing.

    So I support the EU because

    1) it makes life easier for business
    2) It makes sense to have rules developed between different countries
    3) It allows us to export to 30 countries,(Customs Union), without any paperwork.
    4) It greatly enhances Britain’s influence in the world.
    5) I would rather Europeans argued over the standarisation of bananas than shooting at each other.
    6) Europe provides some good examples that could be copied – eg better Work/Life balance in countries, such as Holland and Denmark.
    7) I quite like visiting Europe.

    My concerns on Brexit

    1) Loss of exports
    2) Destruction of the manufacturing supply train – paperwork and delays at the border are more likely to be the problem than actual tariffs.
    3) Loss of carers, nurses, doctors etc
    4) The calibre of the UK’s negotiating team.
    5) Loss of security links, Europol etc.
    6) The fate of UK citizens living in Europe.
    7) The UK cash flow, (balance of payments), we import far more than we export – therefore the pound will drop and interest rates will rise dramatically. I’ve lived through the period of 15% mortgages.
    8) Government income is going to drop and the cuts are going to hit us all. Police, the NHS, education are all going to be hit badly.

    Two final points
    We have the fantasy of being a trading nation.

    When we had an Empire we controlled 25% of the world’s land area, our navy dominated the sea – which meant we controlled world trade, and our initial marketing force was red-coated soldiers.

    Germany is a trading nation. They manufacture products and export them – they are the world’s third biggest exporter. They know how to market, design and develop products in their established markets. There is much more long term support for business, in training etc than in the UK. They export far more in value than they import.

    We do well in some markets, such as fashion, luxury goods, custom cars and quality boat building. But this is very small compared to the Germans and will not make up for the lost trade with the EU.

    We will be competing directly with the Chinese and the Americans. India can produce cheaper software and we will be competing directly with Singapore, Hong Kong and New York for services.

    How can we get better trade deals?

    The EU gives us direct access to the 30 countries in the customs union and around 50 other countries through thousands of trade deals.

    How do we get better trade deals? How do we get better trade deals that will not force us to change our visa requirements? drop our food standards? force us to cut working standards?

    I am a patriot. I do not wish to see the kids I have taught and their children to suffer the consequences of an ill thought out Brexit.

    • Sally

      Well said!

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      I’m voting PAUL!
      Excellent: sane, comprehensive, well-informed, generous-minded, articulate and persuasive and sounding like something genuinely of the 21st century. Well done, mate!

    • demokrat

      Paul,
      When you were born, my grandfather and millions of others had fought in 2 world wars to allow you to be born into a free country. He told me about what had to be done to ensure Germany did not under any circumstances run Europe. In the process of keeping Europe free, Britain had to repay the USA what would be Billions of pounds over the next 60 years to pay for their participation. After the war the Allies did not allow Germany to have any military, or power to commit the same atrocity ever again.

      I respect your point of view, but the essence of all this is that most of the people in this country remember the history of the 20th Century as it is, not as the politicians would like us to believe. Germany paid us nothing for all the damage they caused and should never be allowed to conquer Europe by EU stealth, France, Italy, Spain, etc never paid us anything either for liberating their countries and Poland, Hungary and many other Eastern European countries were just taken by the Russians and did not get any freedom at all.

      Like it or not Germany is the EU and the EU is not the same as Europe, I am a European, but I don’t see that the EU, as an organisation, believes in freedom. It just want to control the UK and will punish us if we disobey. To follow my grandfather’s philosophy, I say “sod em”. Britain cannot be held in fear ever again. We can just deal with the European countries themselves directly, without the EU’s intervention.

      I believe in all the good things that you celebrate, where I disagree is that they are as a result\ of the EU. I support the millions that gave their lives to keep this country free and think putting short term economic gain above freedom is stupid, no matter the price. I am glad that the majority in the UK think the same as me, or we would have been German within 20years, just what our grandparents fought against.

      I am a humanist, I belief in equality and the potential of the individual. The EU is about control and command. So why do we have to always do what the EU wants? Germany promised Chamberlain peace once before. Yes I am mentioning the war and in the same way, the EU cannot be trusted, I cannot disrespect my parents and grandparents sacrifice. Sorry, this is all very simple, but if you want the UK, you cannot be EUpean.

      But here’s the final irony, even on the economic front, we will still be better off working with 80% of world trade with the rest of the world promoting free trade, than dealing with a small protections EU cartel organisation.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Mr Krat
      It’s a mark of your total lack of self-awareness that you imagine that responding to Paul’s intellectually-impressive, well-informed and generous-spirited piece with this bit of narrow-minded and vacuous paranoia can make you look anything other than sour, inward-looking and dim.
      Sorry to be so forthright, but it’s time you stopped doing yourself further harm. You should be happy with your narrow little victory last year. Just sit back now and, over the coming years, enjoy the heavenly Little England you’ve done your bit to create.

    • Paul

      Mr Demokrat

      I was born in the UK. My grandfather, a sergeant major in the medical corp was gassed in the trenches. He met my grandmother, who was a nurse helping him recover. He died early with respiratory problems.

      My mother was an air traffic controller with a bomber squadron. The tower she was working in was strafed twice. On the 50th Aniversary of the War, she spent it with a Germany lady she had met in Spain, who had lived through the bombing of Hamburg. I prefer her attitude to yours.

      I have lived in Germany and spent a lot of time in Greece and France. All the countries have suffered from the war, including the humiliation of occupation.

      Your obsession with European countries paying reparations, which if you read up on your histories between the great wars, will show that a major cause of the Second World War was forcing Germany to pay too much, which bankrupted the country twice and lead to the rise of Hitler.

      Remember the thousands of French soldiers that died to allow the British to escape to Dunkirk. Be aware that without American support we would not have been able to continue the war and U-boats would have starved up to death. Incidentally, another relative of mine survived three enemy attacks and one sinking while in the merchant navy.

      I am 71. I was born after the war. I’ve been around a long time. It is best not to worry about payments we are not going to get or expect gratitude from people too young to remember.

      Ok, you will have your Brexit. Be aware that May’s team are not very competent and we will lose many things.

      The EU is not dominated by Germany, but greatly influenced by it as it is the biggest market. The Uk is the second or third most influential. Do you really thing that Holland, Sweden and especially France would allow themselves to be dominated by Germany. Or for that matter Poland, or Hungary or the Czech Republic – all which suffered badly during the war.

      True the Germans take their work seriously, but they stop work sharply at five and then forget work and follow hobbies or socialise. Many do have a sense of humour – well they do, politely, laugh at my jokes. Incidentally it’s harder to get internet installed in Germany than the UK.

      Some of the Consequences of Brexit

      As May will not exclude students from the immigration figures the country is currently losing several hundred million pounds a year to Australia, Canada and America. When we block EU students that figure will rise to around a billion a year in lost income.

      The new visas and the fact we will not allow students to work for a couple of years after their studies mean we lose many tens of millions more and we will lose research and new businesses starting up.

      We will lose the EU agency that regulates chemical and medicines. That will lose the British chemical and pharmaceutical industries, which export about £20 billion of products to the EU at least a quarter of their exports, around £5 billion.

      We will also lose certification to around another 50 countries – so another couple of billion down the drain.

      Medicines will be approved in the EU, first, as it is a bigger market – so UK patients will suffer and maybe even die as we will be many years behind in regulating drugs. Note there appears to have been no attempt to set up a British drug regulator and by British law you cannot sell new drugs.

      Because the drug regulation will be more important in the EU than in the UK and because of our restrictions on students, and therefore, reducing research and we will also be out of the EU research funding then much of the existing medical research and development and medical technology companies will move to Europe. A loss of around £2 billions of industry and at least half a billion per year in exports.

      These are just a few of the thousand and one cuts Brexit will bring.

      And exporting to other countries? The 80% non-EU? What can be export to Brazil? or Malaysia?

      How will we export more to Australia? What is stopping us exporting more while in the EU? It is not stopping the Germans.

      I care about this country, but I despair for my grandson aged 5. I am putting money aside to help him when he is 18 to have the option to study in Europe or Australia. Sadly I do not see him having a good future here in a declining post-Brexit UK or a diminished UK.

    • Sally

      Barry Edwards or Demokrat
      what a welter of vomit inducing jingoism. You have no right at all to try to use the sufferings of WW2 to bolster your thin and silly arguments of debts owed to the UK -always, in your universe, owed to not by, .The most heroic thing you have done, I’ll wager, is confront an aggressive bit of bindweed. Please turn off the Dambusters music, and stop trying to borrow the bravery of others. Paul’s well reasoned argument shows yours up for total tosh.
      Everybody can find family members who fought or suffered in WW2, Without the people of the allied Euporean countries, let alone the Americans, Britain would have lost. And the rewards for thei Europeans’ sacrifice, is having to deal with ignorant bigotry from such as UKIP such as the Polish fighter pilot having his UK clubhouse defaced.
      However you do seem to have totally come out of the closet to air your views that Germany is an evil empire seeking world domination. Others are giving grateful thanks for Angela Merkel as she fights for the Paris accord , keeps calm and stays rational while Teresa May holds hands with Donald Trump .

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      I am sure the Spanish people would be very interested to know how in Mr. Edwards version of history they were liberated by ‘us’.

    • demokrat

      Paul,

      No doubt you are a sincere man, but if we followed your notion of the EU we would do away with freedom as we know it. FACT. And the real history about the reasons for the varies conflicts in Europe for the past 300years are widely available on the internet and are still true today. If the EU had any sense at all, it would have respected the UK and had us as the lead country, as we do have a knack of saving Europe from itself on many occasions to date.

      I am the first to forgive and forget, but as Chamberlain says in the video link, the German’s and now the EU has been given its chance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtJ_zbz1NyY

      I believe in Lest we Forget – and I will not forget http://branches.britishlegion.org.uk/branches/carlton/lest-we-forget

      The current perceived terrorist threat and in fact all terror attacks since World War II, are dwarfed by the atrocities by the Germans in the 20th Century and they have never atoned for this, even today. My suspicions are that they are on the march again, using the EU as a Trojan horse. Do you really know?

      If I am wrong I will apologies and no harm done, but anyway with the referendum vote at least in my lifetime, so for now, it has stopped this EU invasion. Exaggerated, barmy, NO, I have read the Treaties, have you? They say very clearly that there will be an integrated EU, a federal state which runs the individual countries. I don’t give a monkey’s about being part of a single market under those terms, we would not even have a country !!!

      Unfortunately, if I’m right and we don’t leave the EU properly, over time we and all the other countries will be forced follow German terms, look at what is happening the Greece !!!. My parents and grandparent did not want to be told what to do by Germany and neither do I. Given the recent outrageous behaviour by the President of the EU, threatening the UK, I am not prepared to take that risk. Britain will never be slaves and anyone that wants to be ruled by a foreign country (EU) to be EUpean, is a fool and anti-UK. Though you cannot see it, you Remainers almost destroyed the UK. But unlike Alex Guinness in the film, Bridge over the River Kwai, you haven’t even realised you are helping our competitors.
      http://www.imdb.com/videoplayer/vi4120970009?ref_=tt_pv_vi_aiv_1

      So let’s vote for the party which most supports the referendum, real democracy, the Conservatives, let’s get away from this EU obedience culture (little EU) and do what the people voted for – develop a strong forward looking nation where – Great Britain Goes Global.

    • Paul

      Mr Demokrat

      Can I remind you the year is 2017.

      I am 71 – in my lifetime there has not been any serious conflict with Germany. In fact, Germany has worked with the UK on many issues, such as security, the environment, economic development etc.

      The biggest threat to the UK is President Trump and his links with Russia. It is foreseeable that there could be an armed conflict in Europe if Putin misreads the American signals or Trump does something stupid.

      Brexit is damaging the European stability and an overconfident Putin could start troubles in the Baltic states, Poland etc.

      That and the fact the UK is not going to cooperate on intelligence, policing, etc means your life is at slightly more risk.

  25. aristophanes

    Mrs Robot’s comment on Nemesis citing an article in Daily Express may be factual, but comes over as patronising. The Express has more than twice the circulation of The Guardian or The Observer. Does she assume that the report is inaccurate? Does she deny the truth of Mr McDonnell’s plan to replace Council Tax with the levy described? Strikes me that all homeowners should sit up and take notice

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      Difficult no to sound patronising in the circumstances. Have you actually seen that rag in the last 20 years? Are circulation figures a measure of quality? Is the Sun therefore the best newspaper in the country? Are turkey twizzlers the height of culinary achievement? Would I assume the report is inaccurate? Yes, as is practically everything else in the dim-witted rag apart from maybe the football results and the tv schedules.
      Not for nothing is it called the Daily Ukip. It’s owned ad its policies are dictated by Desmond who made his money out of porn magazines and still runs porn channels and Channel 5. Its journalists have had no pay rise for 10 years as they don’t need to be able to write or think, only to reflect the vulgar right-wing prejudices of its owner, and so can be easily replaced. It hardly qualifies as a newspaper in any real sense.
      Have I read the McDonnell piece? No. Do I need to? Life’s far too short.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      I was quite happy with ‘smooth’ really, Sally. I’ve always thought that Barry’s sophisticated and persuasive tone qualified him to be described, in the words of that other Cook and Moore character Derek, (or was it Clive?) in the famous ‘winky-wanky-woo’ sketch, as a ‘smooth-talking f****r’.
      Funny what strange memories Bazza’s effusions can evoke, eh?

    • aristophanes

      I have seen Express on the news-stands, certainly, as you ask. The news item referred to in Nemesis’ post is also mentioned in the Mail and Telegraph. Was it in Guardian and Observer? Perhaps you could tell me? If it is not, could it be, possibly, maybe, perhaps, because it might be a bit unpalatable for left-wing readers?

  26. A. Robot (Mrs)

    ‘that’s more than can be said of you. You are one of these EUpean commies that are collaborating with other nations to try and run the UK. You are a traitor, or prove me wrong and state clearly here for the record, that you want the UK to remain the UK and that you don’t want further EUpean federalisation’. D. Krat

    I told you not to encourage him. Now look what you’ve done.
    Nurse! The screens, please, for Mr Krat!

    • demokrat

      Bot,
      Let Ex-Twick stick-up for himself, these EUpeans, don’t like it up’em.
      Answer the question Ex, are you anti-UK?

    • Sally

      Demokrat aka Barry-and if you want to be an International Man of Mystery, you need to stop referring to your unhinged website and quoting yourself approvingly-
      You have no right to demand anybody answer your hilariously loaded questions such as “are you anti UK ?” You have not a leg to stand on in shouting you like healthy debate and then collapsing into a welter of cliches. name calling and cries of fake news when trounced- as you always are.
      You claim to alone hear the voice of the people. If this forum was a bus ,you are ranting while your fellow passengers are hiding behind newspapers and hoping its your stop soon . Be a good chap change to the 267.and head off home. Isleworth and Houslow will just have to cope.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      But, Sally, it is written: ‘And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house’ Matthew 13:57

    • demokrat

      Sally,
      I know you won’t understand this, but trying to silence anyone, even if you dislike them, is disgusting. It is what the fascist on the far right and the Commies on the left do, which are you? And why are you trying to answer for Ex-Twick, is it because you are anti-UK as well?

      Just want to remind you to stay on topic, the principle factor in this election is whether you support the referendum and therefore a Government that will implement this, or not? There is no such thing as soft or hard Brexit, just good negotiations in the UK interest.

      To a) support the EUpeans running the UK, b) to undermining negotiations to leave, or c) getting some soft wishy-washy weak deal is all anti-UK, so and staying on topic, tell us Sally, are you an EUpean?

      I’m not going to try and close you down, come on tell us all, truly where do you stand?

    • Sally

      Mrs Robot verily, you speak smooth ! And yet –

      Stanley Moon: ” You’re a nutcase! A bleeding nutcase!”
      George Spigott: “They said that of Jesus Christ, Freud, Galileo-”
      Stanley Moon: “They said it it about a lot of nut cases as well.”

    • demokrat

      Sally,

      I know you won’t understand this, but trying to stop someone expressing their point of view is disgusting. It is what the fascist on the far right and the commies on the far left do, which are you?

      Let’s stick to the topic, the parties and the public agree that the most important thing to know when deciding who they vote for, will be which party will implement the referendum and will they do it in-line with the will of the people? Remember the referendum question was:

      Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

      Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241
      Leave the European Union. 17,410,742

      After such a clear vote, well to support the EUpeans a) to then run the UK, b) to undermine strong negotiations, or c) get some wishy-washy weak fudge is all in the best interest of the EU. Not what was voted for, so of course, it is anti-UK.

      So Sally, I am not going to close down anyone, pray tell us we are all ears, what is your position on the matter, are you are EUpean?

      P.S. – Bot, praying won’t help, its only you that has a cheek. I’ve just got a duck’s back (water off, you know)!!

    • Sally

      Apologies! That should been sooth! As in: Shaw spoke sooth when he said .” Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious .”

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      (Sorry, in the wrong place before!)

      I was quite happy with ‘smooth’ really, Sally. I’ve always thought that Barry’s sophisticated and persuasive tone qualified him to be described, in the words of that other Cook and Moore character Derek, (or was it Clive?) in the famous ‘winky-wanky-woo’ sketch, as a ‘smooth-talking f****r’.
      Funny what strange memories Bazza’s effusions can evoke, eh?

  27. Ex-Twickenham Resident

    Reading the comments and the civil words said in favour of Tania regarding brexit – the fact remains that there is nothing that Tania stands for regarding Brexit that Vince does not. Vince would hold the govt. to account something that Tania can not do in the face of a 3 line whip.

    On this side of the river it will be close, but it is clear Zac is no longer popular with a large section of the electorate. He also can offer nothing regarding brexit that Sarah cannot. Also his Heathrow stance looks ridiculous given that it is in the manifesto.

    • demokrat

      Ex,
      Both Tania and Zac offer far more than you can, All you have is Lib Dem propaganda. The Conservatives are in this case, pro-UK and pro-democracy, that’s more than can be said of you. You are one of these EUpean commies that are collaborating with other nations to try and run the UK. You are a traitor, or prove me wrong and state clearly here for the record, that you want the UK to remain the UK and that you don’t want further EUpean federalisation. That of course means leaving the EU.

    • Ex-Twickenham Resident

      Is it just me you are accusing of being a traitor or all 16 million people that voted Remain?

  28. Pragmatist

    The conclusion that a vote for Vince will help prevent the brexit catastrophe seems illogical to me.

    Both of our prospective candidates are remainers, Tania has voted against the whip on these issues. The question we should be asking ourselves is who will be able to represent our views and wield the most influence for the next 5 years.

    Over the last 6 months, who do you think had more influence over the government, Tania within it or Sarah Olney outside of it. Like it loath the Conservatives, it’s clear to me wish candidate can best represent me in Parliament.

    • Pragmatist

      Before I get flamed for spelling, the last sentence should have read “Like *or* loath the Conservatives, it’s clear to me *which* candidate can best represent me in Parliament”.

    • A. Robot (Mrs)

      ‘Loathe’, probably. Or ‘covfefe’?

    • Riverside Voter

      I am sorry *Pragmatist* but when I eventually got a reply from Tania to my letter asking her to support the Lord’s amendments ( two months after I wrote ) she made it clear that she fully supports Theresa May’s stance on Brexit. She was quite specific on supporting immigration control, which means leaving the single market. She is a remainer no more. Her cut and paste reply made it clear that she was at best a wet remainer in the first place, she considered it “on the balance, not the time to risk leaving”.

      She has been brave and principled on humanitarian issues, concerning refugees and the rights of citizens of EU countries living here and I agree that she has spoken up for us on those issues but she is not going to speak up against leaving the single market and from her reply to me there is no evidence that, along with the muppets who have been leading the preparation for the Brexit negotiations, she understands the scale of the economic impact on the country, and this constituency and her constituents in particular, if that happens.

      That stands in very sharp contrast to Vince Cable who very clearly does and will be able to present a detailed and informed case on our behalf.

      We need an informed opposition who understand and can articulate the risks to ensure that our case does get put forward effectively, because otherwise we will just have Tania smiling meakly at May from the sidelines of the Tory party. What chance does she stand against this? From the Times

      “They are the most powerful opposition force in British politics, but even the denizens of Westminster would not recognise the group by its official name. They have more influence than Her Majesty’s official opposition, five times more MPs than the Lib Dems and a sense of discipline that puts the SNP to shame.

      The most aggressive and successful political cadre in Britain today is run by a nucleus of Brexit-supporting Tory MPs from the traditional right who for more than a decade were derided by David Cameron.

      Ministers say that the direction of government is being shaped by what happens on a private WhatsApp message group for 59 members of the European Research Group (ERG), a little-known organisation…”

    • demokrat

      The influence over the government is not the question at all.

      it is what catastrophe?

      You haven’t actually believed all of the irrational propaganda, that says we are doomed have you? The UK has traded around the world for centuries and done very well thank you very much with, or without the EU. Please look at this: https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/ In fact the EU only makes up 20% of world trade and this is falling. So the EU single market is small and sinking and putting all of us at risk by remaining.

      The UK has been responsible for keeping Europe safe and free from tyranny in 2 World Wars and now upholds this peace through NATO. This peace has nothing to do with the EU. The LIb Dem, Labour, Green and SNP opinion is based on blind belief and their politicians “bending reality” for their own gain, really everyone should read the Treaties, make their own mind up based on the facts and stop believing nonsense.

      The EU is a declining protectionist cartel that has an aggressive expansionist mentality (currently it is wooing Ukraine, Turkey and other previously Soviet States), which is set to do away with the UK and in fact all the other diverse and interesting European cultures, in favour of one amorphous federal state.

      If you believe in democracy, freedom and being British the EU cannot be supported in any way. If people don’t like Britain the way it is, why don’t they move to Germany and stop trying to ruin the country for the majority? (And please don’t say its a close vote, the majority is the majority, that’s what democracy is and for those who don’t support national votes they are anti-democratic, I certainly would have supported the result if remain had won). I like the majority in the UK want the UK to remain the UK and maintain its own democracy, I am a European, not EUpean, they are not the same in any way. So the only party which has a chance of gaining government, wishes to remain a country and get a good deal from these EUpean bullies is the Conservatives. If you want to be pragmatic, go and do some research at: http://europa.eu/european-union/law/treaties_en

      Treaty of Lisbon
      Signed: 13 December 2007
      Entered into force: 1 December 2009
      Purpose: to make the EU more democratic (unified), more efficient and better able to address global problems, such as climate change, with one voice.

      The Treaty establishing a constitution for Europe (2004) – with aims similar to the Lisbon Treaty – was signed but never ratified. (However I have read these and though never ratified, this EU constitution has been adopted masquerading as the Lisbon Treaty).

      Treaty on European Union – Maastricht Treaty
      Signed: 7 February 1992
      Entered into force: 1 November 1993
      Purpose: to prepare for European Monetary Union and introduce elements of a political union.

    • Pragmatist

      Riverside Voter you asked Tania to vote for the Lords Amendments, guess what she defied the whips and did.

      http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/15154811.Rebelling_against_Government__Twickenham_MP_Tania_Mathias_one_of_only_two_Tories_to_defy_party_whip_in_Brexit_vote/

      So Tania did vote in line with your request, it would be nice for you to give her credit where it is due but I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative.

    • Pragmatist

      demokrat, I’m not sure who you think you’re going to convince with your views on here but I’d wager you’re approach at the moment is having the opposite effect than the one you desire.

    • demokrat

      Pragmatist,
      I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, I am just defending the truth. Like reality or not, as you see fit. Let’s have a factual contest, I welcome it, but they are too insecure to engage.

      It would indeed be nice for sense to prevail, but your wager is probably safe, given the strange nature of the few outspoken fools (they know who they are), that keep posting nonsense here.

      It would be good to discuss the issues, the pros and cons to arrive at rational conclusions, from the position of an open mind. But this kind of mature debate is frankly impossible whilst the personal insults and factual discrepancies continue. They are wilfully “muddying the water” to stop this kind of intelligent evaluation. It is their way to “be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly”, “advises candidates to “exaggerate” claims and to use a range of other negative campaigning tactics”,

      I fear that this party political brainwashing in these individuals is by now so ingrained, that they have no ability to think logically; but someone has to challenge their absurdity, or other less vocal readers might actually believe this drivel.

    • Riverside Voter

      Pragmatist. Read my post, and the newspaper article. It is to her credit, as I said in my post, that she is a humanitarian and voted for the rights of the citizens of EU countries. There were however TWO Lords’ Amendments, the other called for a second referendum on the terms of the Brexit deal and she voted with the government on that one. Her support for the government’s stance on immigration control and leaving the single market and customs union is not a narrative, it is her stated position.

      If Tania were to come out and state publicly that she will stand up for the wishes of the 70% in this constituency who voted Remain, and articulate effectively the interests of the many of us who work in services, especially financial services, science, tech, the creative industries and the knowledge economy / academia then I would consider voting for her. We know full well that our sectors have already been damaged by the fall out from the vote, and by existing immigration control, and that losing the benefits of the single market and customs union will cause further damage with the ripple effects on the rest of the local economy. I am not the only one who has had a letter from her that manifests that she either does not understand or does not want to listen to the feedback of her constituents.

    • Riverside Voter

      Sorry Tania would have to convince me of one other thing than support of the single market to get my vote. That her humanitarian moderate voice would have a chance of being heard in the face of that most agressive and successful cadre in British politics today. The 59 right wing MPs who include Gove, Fox and Davis (actually several varieties of Davis / Davies, you can have the Brexit one, the homophobic one who proposes X raying teeth as the solution to the child refugee crisis and the sexist one whose habit of filibustering bills that will help protect women from domestic violence means that a small conservative northern town has become a hotbed of women’ marches and and militant feminism, or zealots as he calls them). There is also neighbouring Epsom MP Dominic Raab who told a woman yesterday who had experience of disabled people committing suicide as a result of the PIPs process that increased welfare payments to the disabled were a “childish wishlist” whilst like Theresa May recently confusing mental illness and physical / neurological disability. He calls feminists bigots. I could go on but the sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, disablism, and generally being out of touch with the real world gets a bit boring………

      I really would like to hear that Tania’s sensible voice is being heard by May over those voices of unreason, and that I can wake up and find that this moving of the overton window that allows these people to get away with saying what was once thought unacceptable is just a bad dream. Problem is that however much she twists and turns May “is very clear” that she is “strong and stable” those words beloved of authoritarian right wing leaders the world over…….

    • Riverside Voter

      And before anyone comes back with how can you imply right wing tories are misogynists when they have a female PM “it would be nice for you to give them credit where it is due but I guess that doesn’t fit your narrative”, well, it is complicated. It seems that they have bestowed on her the only power that woman can be allowed and call her (I apologise in advance for any psychological distress or nausea this may cause) “Mummy”…. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-called-mummy-by-tory-conservative-activists-why-motherhood-female-power-a7707841.html

    • Pragmatist

      You finished yet Riverside Voter that was a longer diatribe than even Demokrat could manage

    • Paul

      The only purpose of the election is to strengthen Mrs May’s grip of the Conservative Party. The intention is to have a far larger number of Conservative MPs in Parliament so that they will rubber stamp the government’s deal on Brexit.

      May’s clear Brexit objective is to leave the Single Market and the EU customs union. She also plans to have a beneficial UK/EU trade agreement or crash out of the EU and trade on WTO terms.

      New MPs to Parliament are likely to be hard-liners or pretend to be hard-liners to advance their careers.

      In this case, Tanya Mathias will be powerless to act, to prevent what will be an economic disaster for the UK.

      I also note that:

      1) more austerity is to be imposed on the poorer segments of society in order to support cuts in corporation tax.

      2) that there will be further cuts to the police, fire brigade and other emergency services.

      3) school funding, health funding in real terms will be reduced.

      Therefore the argument goes that the fewer Conservative MPs there are the less power May has to implement these measures.

      If Vince Cable is elected – he will get more media attention and therefore there will be more exposure of the some of the more unpleasant cuts.

      There is also the very remote possibility that there is a hung parliament – in which case there is the likelihood that she would resign and be replaced by someone of better calibre, or that a softer Brexit could be negotiated by a ragtag coalition of Labour and the others.

    • anonymouse

      Before long (9 days) they’ll be wrapping mummy in tape and sending her to the pyramids.

  29. demokrat

    Please post what democracy means to you? To me it means…..

    1) You need a country
    2) A fair voting system
    3) An equitable system of government, typically through elected representatives
    4) Culminating in the whole population being involved in decisions about their own lives.

    Well this election is about getting the best from stage 3) This will be the Conservative, because Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and SNP just want to corrupt 2)

    But once this Election is all over, I am not prepared to accept 3) any longer, representational democracy has been the best we have had so far, but it has failed.

    The only answer is 4) I think people are better at making decisions about their own lives than party biased politicians. Who have they been running the country for? The country should be run by the people that live in it, or democracy will never be at its best.

  30. A. Robot (Mrs)

    Please don’t encourage/provoke Barry the spelling mistake. Twick has to try to oversee this site and he’s still suffering from PTSD from a few weeks ago.

    • demokrat

      Ah Bot, been eating the wrong code again!! So I am against people making discriminatory jokes at the expense of dyslexics, Why do you think this is OK? Also being a non-sentient Bot, you won’t understand that it is rude to mention someone’s name without giving your own. This is known to all in society as “having someone at a disadvantage”. Why do you feel so insecure to do this? I think your program is corrupted, please reboot. This blog is about the Election, please stay on topic.

    • Anonymous

      Isn’t it ironic that Barry’s not using his own name, preferring to hide behind the alias ‘demokrat’.

    • demokrat

      And that coming from someone called Anonymous !!!! That’s rich?? I am happy for all to use their real names or none, but not all this cloak and danger stuff with some using real names and then hiding their own. Don’t you get that?

  31. Micio

    I just wanted to make people aware that I had a serious problem with a Government agency back in January 2017. I wrote to Tania on the 6th Jan 2017. I expected to receive a reply within a few days but guess what no reply by the beginning of Feb 2017. I emailed again in the first week of Feb 2017. Still no reply received by the middle of March 2017. I telephone her Westminster Office and left a message on her voicemail. I finally received a reply to my email sent in Jan 2017 the first week of April 2017 – three months later. Totally unacceptable in my view. Speaking to other locals this week I find this is a common problem Tania does not respond or you have to keep chasing her. That said I have heard that Vince was very prompt at replying but I never contacted him as I only moved to the area in 2016.

    What troubled me the most is here I am waiting for a response to an important enquiry yet Tania’s facebook and twitter was busy with endless photos of her at events of meetings.

    Please put your Constituents first Tania if you are re-elected and respond promptly after all your office is awash with employees to assist you.

  32. Paul

    I think Tania Mathias is an excellent MP, both locally, in giving a lot of support to the community, and in parliament where she has courageously made a number of stands on refugee children, the health service and, of course, against the proposed expansion of Heathrow.

    Sadly I am unable to vote for her.

    The main point being that a vote for Tania is a vote for a Conservative Party that has moved from combining the Centre and Centre Right ideals to much more to the Right only. Social Conservatism, such as Tania, will have no place in Team May’s party.

    To remind you – Jeremy Hunt is Health Secretary. Liam Fox and Boris Johnson are only interested in ‘big deals’ with the Americans and Chinese which effectively puts up British assets, both private and public, up for sale.

    I have to vote against a strong Conservative government – so sorry Tania Mathias I cannot vote for you.

    • Anonymous

      I agree. She has done a good job. It’s just she is attached to the Conservative Party , and all that now comes with it.

    • Dr NHS

      Paul,
      You said exactly what I feel, far better than I ever could. I too will vote for Vince and then write a letter to Tania apologising for having had to do so. It’s not a regrettable case of ‘vote Labour and get a Tory’ as the Lib Dems would have it but rather a far worse one of vote Tania and get Theresa May and all that the harder, nastier Conservative party seems to be standing for.

  33. Riverside Voter

    According to a lovely colourful leaflet we received today it is going to be RIverside Voter and families’ “special Brexit”. We are very excited and look forward to unicorns galloping over Elysian Fields to sunlit uplands, or failing that some nice cereal or a free box of detergent, the sort of thing that sort of advertising would normally be promoting. Unfortunately it is more likely to be a BOGOF, as in what the EU are going to say to strong and stable Mable and her motley crew when they turn up unprepared but with an attitude….. And actually what we as a family really want is to stay in the single market and customs union which has delivered us jobs and opportunities and helped us pay the taxes that fund the NHS, schools and welfare state. In recent months we have come to realise that what was just normal is now special……

    Is Tania still standing? The RIverside Voter family have heard nothing from her personally but we did get a nice personal letter from Theresa May on fancy yellow paper, signed and everything. It said vote for me because I am strong and stable (four times) and don’t vote for Jeremy Corbyn because he is really scary. And I keep getting unsolicited videos of Jeremy Corbyn on Facebook as well, telling me how scary he is, which is the stuff of nightmares. Not Jeremy, he seems a nice enough man but the adverts are scary and disturbing because they are the sort of unregulated online election activity that was the dark territory of the Leave and Trump campaigns. We are the chosen few, these ads are only being directed at key marginals. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/27/conservatives-facebook-dark-ads-data-protection-election?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    All in all I think the CCP, I mean the CCHQ, who have sent out this stuff have got the Twickerati all wrong. If I am feeling patronised and resistant to being manipulated I bet a lot more feel the same….

  34. Simon

    Holy Cow, demokrat, that’s quite a diatribe. A few brief comments:
    1/ you need to sort the sought you sort of sought from ‘sort’;
    2/ V Cable – like him or hate him – was a much respected MP who, as the former Chief Economist at Shell, probably should be trusted to know his economics; and
    3/ questioning the validity of a narrow majority in a one off unclearly defined Referendum is not undemocratic. Constantly using this one binary vote at one moment in time to justify shouting down any subsequent debate on the issue is however undemocratic tyranny.

    • demokrat

      Simon, just to clarify
      1) Do you also believe in infinite growth as well?
      2) Do you believing in accepting a result of a properly conducted vote or not? Many Local Council seats can be won or lost by a single vote. This democratic vote was !.5 Million.
      3) Do you think the choice of being run by the EU or the UK parliament is unclear?
      Please read the Treaties, they clearly state the intension of “an ever increasingly integrated Europe. This is undemocratic, because we would not have a UK democracy anymore.

    • anonymouse

      Oh dear again Barry, facts, numbers and spelling aren’t your forte are they?
      Yes, local council elections can be close, but not so in your numerous failed attempts to be elected for equally numerous parties. Unsurprisingly, because the numbers are >1000x larger, national elections tend to be decided by larger margins.
      BTW the difference in votes was not !.5M (sic), but 1.27M. That’s a fact.
      Still, the referendum vote of 51.9% vs 48.1% was pretty close in %age terms, and certainly isn’t an endorsement for May’s hard/far right Brexit car crash.

  35. Ted

    * Breggzit means Brexit

  36. demokrat

    LIB ANTICRATS

    Demokrats will not be standing in this election, but I would like to offer a few thoughts on considering which way to vote. Firstly, for everyone who supported UKIP in the last election, please vote Conservative. They are the only party that, on this occasion, has respected the “will of the people”, by supporting the result of the referendum.

    Secondly and on the referendum. You see whether you voted Leave or Remain, if you believe in democracy, as I think we all do, you have to respect the result of a properly conducted vote. The Lib Dems since the referendum have sort to undermine the people of this country by suggesting that we don’t know our own minds and that they are right. This is arrogant and anti-democratic, the people of this country are not stupid and we cannot have democracy brought into question by anyone. This is how honest the Lib Dems actually are: This is from strategy guide titled Effective Opposition only available to Lib-Dem members – Published by the Association of Liberal Democrat Councillors (ALDC).

    http://www.nastylibdems.org/2010/01/lib-dem-campaign-guide-be-wicked-act.html#comment-form “be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly”, “advises candidates to “exaggerate” claims and to use a range of other negative campaigning tactics”, “you can secure support from voters who normally vote Tory by being effectively anti-Labour and similarly in a Tory area secure Labour votes by being anti-Tory.”

    Thirdly, please understand that this country does not have infinite resources, Vince Cable has openly ridiculed Malthus, a man who is respected throughout the world for his empirical research on “The exponential equation”. If you have not come across this before please have a look at the most important video you will ever see at: http://www.barryedwards.info/?page_id=56 . We have to live within our own means and Vince “Ponzi” Cable is selling our children’s future, by suggesting infinite growth is possible, it is economic madness.

    And finally folks and on a personal note, behind the scene during the last election debates, the Vince you don’t see, was the most rude and obnoxious character you could ever meet. I felt then and still today believe, that an individual of such questionable personality should never represent me, or the residents of Twickenham.

    Please vote Conservative.

    • anonymouse

      Oh dear oh dear Barry, you really must get your facts right.
      The Cons aren’t ‘the only party to uphold the will of the people’ are they.
      Labour will uphold the Brexit decision, but do it more softly and less damagingly.
      The Lib Dems are campaigning for a referendum on the Brexit deal, so they too accept that it will happen, although like the vast majority of us twickerati they wish it hadn’t happened.
      Maybe it’s different over in Isleworth and Hounslow.

    • Pat Pending

      demokrat:
      “The most rude and obnoxious character you could ever meet. I felt then and still today believe, that an individual of such questionable personality should never represent the residents of Twickenham”.

      Remind me. Who are we talking about here?

    • Sally

      Mr Edwards ,
      Vince is the possessor of a Doctorate in Economics from Cambridge, studied Natural History also at Cambridge, has a wealth of theoretical experience and an excellent knowledge of Malthus’ theories and their limitations. He can’t be expected to soar to your horticultural heights. Be fair.
      Even his worst enemies describe him as even tempered however., so it’s surprising to hear he was short with you. Could the clue lie with you? Had that reaction from others before?,

    • demokrat

      Pat, I was subjected to a disgraceful set of insults, You must be aware what people say in public and what they say in private are two divergent things. Try standing against Vince, or any Lib Dem, go and look at the link, in my experience this is true.

      Anonymouse, Labour, Lib Dem, Green, SNP all still want to stay EUpean and they will sell the country down the river to keep sweet with their globalisation mates. They don’t care about anything other than their own pay-cheques. They don’t care about working people all over the country that highlighted, that the EU is not working for them. These parties cannot be trusted to do what the people want.

      Sally, same as Simon
      1) Do you also believe in infinite growth as well?
      2) Do you believing in accepting a result of a properly conducted vote or not? Many Local Council seats can be won or lost by a single vote. This democratic vote was !.5 Million.
      3) Do you think the choice of being run by the EU or the UK parliament is unclear?
      Please read the Treaties, they clearly state the intension of “an ever increasingly integrated Europe. This is undemocratic, because we would not have a UK democracy anymore.

    • anonymouse

      You’re a funny man!

  37. Rob

    The Richmond Chamber hustings is ticketed and the Churches Together hustings appears to be for church goers only – is this correct? Is there any local hustings where other members of the public can hear the candidates state and test their ideas?

  38. A. Robot (Mrs)

    Who on earth would want to win when the prospect is that of inheriting the Brexit disaster and the consequent tanked economy, slashed tax receipts and no chance of adequately funding education, social care, the NHS, more police etc etc etc for the foreseeable future? There can be no ‘successful Brexit’ or a ‘Brexit that’s best for Britain’ any more than there can be a successful car crash or coronary. The choice in Twickenham is between two people who are fully aware of this but can do nothing about it.
    The only possible salvation is a hung parliament with the Lib Dems and SNP forcing Labour into agreeing to salvage whatever can be saved after the mess arising from ‘the Conservative party cat-fight that got out of hand’. Brexit is only ‘inevitable’ for Tories trying to hold their party together. That’s their problem, not ours. And what greater demonstration that the ‘will of the people’ is constantly in flux than the 2016 election result being reversed a year later in an election that was repeatedly promised was never going to take place.

    (Brave move, Twick, by the way. After the earlier election session on here I thought you’d have said ‘NEVER AGAIN!’ )

    • whiteknight

      It is very scary that Mrs R has the ability to know with absolute confidence and complete accuracy what is going to happen in the future. However, what is more scary still is the prospect of Mrs Abbott becoming Home Secretary and thus in charge of our security; That is what a vote for Sir Vince makes more likely

    • Riverside Voter

      No, it doesn’t. If Jeremy Corbyn becomes Prime Minister there will be pigs flying, hell will have frozen over, the Pope will have declared himself a humanist, there will be bears shitting on Twickenham High Street and the sky will have turned green. Dianne Abbott will be the least of your worries…..

  39. Micio

    I have already voted for the Labour candidate. The other two are a waste of a vote.

  40. why on earth would the green party endorse cable

  41. Sue Bright

    My house backs on to St James school. I wondered what was going on. Had I known about the rally I would have gone!

  42. Simon

    We are perhaps luckier than we realise to be in a constituency where each vote might actually matter, and with a choice between two main candidates who seem both to have a genuine knowledge of, and concern for, key local issues. Sadly however, it comes down to the big picture: which party that they represent do you feel would serve us and the country best and how big an influence on major national decisions can our one MP exert?

  43. Katherine

    It’s Whitton I feel sorry for; apart from yesterday’s school visit (and can we take that to mean St James’s are confident the Conservatives won’t do a u-turn on their ‘no school worse off’ funding revisions?) it seems to be bearing the brunt of the Tory campaigning. Amber Rudd and Andrea Leadsom have both visited and Philip Hammond likes it so much he’s been twice! Residents must be living in fear of BoJo or the like next!

  44. Rene Bach

    Tricky choice between Vince Cable endorsed by the local Green Party or Tania Mathias backed by UKIP not standing. Tough choice. What society would we like to live in!

  45. anonymouse

    *Dogs Brexit