A Rubbish Morning in Twickenham 

A sunny Sunday morning in Twickenham after the Marriot London 7s. Everyone likes a party, right? Certainly the tens of thousands who descended on Twickenham at the weekend in fancy dress liked to party. Hard. In fact, they liked it so much they decided to share some of it with the rest of us. Litter (tick), broken glass (tick), pissing in the street (tick). The combination of an event that has become party destination for a youngish crowd, the warm weather, people stocking up with shop bought booze to carry on drinking after pubs closed early, all made for a grim sight on Sunday morning. Yes, the Council did turn up to begin the clear-up at about 11.00am but surely LBRuT and the RFU need to be doing more? The annual London 7s is not your average day at Twickenham (luckily) but with the Rugby World Cup only months away, some serious thinking – and money – is required to tackle mess like this sooner and better.

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King Street litter [Photo courtesy of Deryn Harvey on Facebook]

King Street litter
[Photo courtesy of Deryn Harvey on Facebook]

115 Comments

Filed under Council, Local Issues & News

115 responses to “A Rubbish Morning in Twickenham 

  1. Sally

    I am with the protest group on this one!
    Did anybody read the RTT piece on this? Residents’concerns were quoted, yes, but illustrated by a photo of. a nice grassy bank with a few bags on it. Why did they choose that over the mountains of photos of total carnage on line?
    Utterly enragingly the RFU and alas the counci,were at it again! They will “work closely together ” to address residents’ concerns. No actual problems are admitted, the RFU is a benign and powerful God.Why, the litter crews did a great job ! They provided heaps of security ! Clearlythe PR department cannot afford to admit to any problems so instead they feign concern about concerned residents who are clearly hallucinating .
    I don’t care about working closely together, listening to concerns etc. it is irrelevant whether the RFU and council work so closely tthat they have their legs tied together ,share a house or go on hiking holidays as a group. I really do think that this will only change for residents if:
    1.The council actually take photos of problems, investigate them and institute consequences. Any licensing officer could have in one short stroll on the Saturday recorded a mountain of evidence. The police saw enough to close a thousand pubs and clubs. Yet it is all presented vaguely as “residents concerns ”

    2.The RFU are made to respond to said specific and detailed charges which will potentially affect their licensing. No longer should a statement of values: ” working constructively with residents…mutually satisfactory relationship is our goal..” be accepted as a relevant response. Any business breaking it’s licensing conditions kicks off by describing just how important those conditions are to them. Harold Shipman’s defence team doubtless began by saying that the health and wellbeing of his patients was the highest priority for Dr S. Question is what is actually happening?

  2. Ben Makins

    I’m on the RFU “Home Turf” Resident’s Group chaired by Hannah Barrett. Having read the comments on Twickerati I sent her an email. This extract is the greater part of it, for your information.

    “….the weight of negative comments (on Twickerati) following this weekend would indicate that this (event) was of a rather different order and, combined with some negative observations following the Army / Navy match, has led to a significant PR reverse for the RFU in the run up to the World Cup.

    Obviously Twickerati is not necessarily representative of the whole community, but clearly there has been a shift in opinion…..

    Is the Senior Team at the RFU aware of the situation and concerned about it and planning to respond? Is this event going to be reviewed with Marriott and will arrangements for other matches be reviewed?

    It seems to me the upcoming couple of games must be taken as an opportunity to restore confidence and that some clear and visible action is going to be required to change the conduct of visiting fans and reduce the impact on the area.

    • I’ve suggested previously that all ticket holders, and clubs which are a channel for tickets to their members, should receive a “Respect our Town” message, with a particular emphasis on using the provided toilets and making it clear that either urinating (or worse) in the streets or private gardens is a public order offence and will be treated seriously. Indeed, is this the line the police will take? If not, it needs to be.

    • This needs to be aligned with a “Drink Sensibly and in Moderation” message.

    • I’ve suggested that RFU “Community Stewards” might be deployed outside the ground, to challenge such behaviour and direct fans to the toilets provided. I mentioned the “Green Police” at the Glastonbury Festival, who in a good humoured way discourage attendees urinating in the hedgerows. Somehow it has to be made clear that this is unacceptable behaviour, using peer pressure where possible.

    • I can’t comment on the number and location of loos provided by the RFU, but it seems it needs to go the extra mile in the next couple of games and provide a much higher level of facilities, however much it costs in the short term. Overall provision needs to be reviewed for the longer term.

    • Again I don’t know what contribution the RFU makes towards litter picking outside the immediate environs of the stadium, but clearly this was a very big problem which was much in evidence sometime after the games ended. I think it would be unhelpful if the RFU got into a demarcation argument about its responsibility vs pubs, off-licences and the council etc., and literally and metaphorically sucks it up and makes a big effort to ensure that fans take a responsible attitude to litter and rubbish disposal, that there are lots of receptacles for litter to be deposited in and that there are sufficient clear up teams on hand who can restore the area in a timely way.

    • It might be appropriate to consider a full page in the RTT and maybe a local mailshot, recognising the resident’s concerns about the 7s and outlining the additional measures the RFU is going to take place to ensure no repeat in the up-coming matches and the RWC.

    ….(there) is a growing perception that the RFU is “bullying” and can and will do what it likes to make as much money as possible. I don’t hold to that view, but the inconsiderate actions of rugby “fans” who can at worst be seen as mindless, braying “rugger buggers” of the worst kind, thinking only of themselves, can erroneously be taken as representative of the RFU. It’s clear to me that the RFU needs to come out strong and loud and condemn this behaviour and take practical steps to prevent it and mitigate its consequences.”

    I hope to talk to Hannah shortly and I’m assured this issue will be on the next Home Turf agenda. The RFU are reviewing this event and Hannah is meeting some residents. I suggest that any observations are made to her direct. If possible keep to any specific incidents rather than general observations about the streets being awash with pee etc. Also positive suggestions would be appreciated.

    • rugbyarts

      I agree with you re the advertisement Ben. I intend to shame rugby fans with a banner hanging from my Ist flood window. It will ask them not to urinate or throw rubbish into my garden. Should be interesting.

      Sent from my iPhone

      >

    • Ben Khosa

      I have previously asked if the RFU could convey to the fans through the audio systems in the stadium to be respectful to the locality on their way home. This needs to be done a number of times during the match.

    • A number of residents have emailed me privately re. the formation of a Rugby Stadium Twickenham Concern Group. Apparently the problem stretches further than the immediate approach.
      It has been rooted we establish a website complete with blog and image page to publish our concerns re. RFU and local Coucil. .
      I think this is quite a good idea as several residents are saying there Councillors are not interested. This applies in St Margaret’s Riverside Whitton and so on. There is so much interest we may have to form a proper working committee.
      Initial contact is.
      rugbyarts@talk21.com.
      subject. Twickenham RFU Concerns.

    • Sally

      Ben- you asked for further suggestions. Could I please suggest adding to your list of points.two suggestions?

      1.A quantified adequate increase in money for security/police from the RFU. Poliice could probably give an idea of how many extra numbers they would have needed to cope with the crowds, and that could be costed. Ditto the shortfall in.litter clear up and street washing. The RFU should be paying to clear up the mess.
      I really do think that without specific figures of how much extra funding to pay for how much of which service, we will either get meaningless statements of aims, or offers that sound a lot but are inadequate given the enormity of the task.

      2.I don’t know that thousands of boozed punters will pay a lot of attention to a sign or announcement at the stadium asking them to behave.By then they are well on the way, full of off -license booze topped up by the generous provision at the stadium and ready to let rip further. At the match in question, the awful behavior started hours before the actual match.
      Hence the RFU and Marriott could stop advertising this or the other events as party destinations. The advertising material is at hand if Ms Barrett wants to refresh her memory of the way this was done.

      I am interested that you don’t see the RFU as bullying. Perhaps securely powerful. They consider themselves exempt for the licensing regulations shared by every other business, and this belief is echoed by the authorities who wouldn’t think of enforcing the licensing rules which would apply to any other business. The RFU have councillors who want very much to please them by pushing through developments which are generally unpopular with locals and councillors who think it is fine to accept corporate hospitality and free tickets to World Cup matches amounting to gifts worth thousands of pounds. So the RFU is correct to behave as all powerful. It is ,under the current arrangements.

    • Residents RFU Concern.
      The whole stance of the RFU is one of bullying or else we would not have these problems. The very nature of what is happening is bullying.
      Show me some consideration from the RFU and I met chance my point of view. Until now there has been no consideration at all. Otherwise they would not stand by and let Twickenham get trashed on these match days.
      But they do. Big business in bed with grandiose Councillors.
      I’m thinking we should form some type of Residents Support Group to monitor the RFU and the World Cup situation, particularity on the stadium approach, if there is no satisfactory response from the RFU re last Saturdays loutish behaviour.
      Anyone interested in discussing the idea please drop me an email at
      rugbyarts@ talk21.com
      subject Residents RFU Concern.
      if you are of like mind, we could loosely discuss the seeds of something.

  3. Those of us in Riverside ward would also be grateful to know that our own councillors understand and are acting on our concerns – although we are of course grateful for the councillors from the neighbouring ward who seem to be taking. Despite the fact that our particular pocket of Twickenham suffered considerably from the after-effects I haven’t heard from them as yet.

  4. sweet-tooth

    I meant to add….imagine if this were a football event, National Media coverage etc etc..rugger buggars getting away with it….

  5. Jonathan

    The answer to this is to reduce the amount of alcohol consumed by the means of;

    1) limits on the numbers of patrons in each pub

    2) No drinking outside the pub and no drinking on the streets

    3) No off licence sales

    4) reduce the number of bars and beer tents in the RFU stadium and grounds

    5) ban the RFU app that allows people to order beer from there stadium seat – which has drastically increased the amount of beer being sold

    6) a licencing condition that no people drunk can be admitted into the ground

    7) matches to start earlier to stop all day drinking

    8) a ban on amplified music on the Riverside – as it has become an unofficial fan-zone and encourages all day binge drinking.

    9) a match day ban on under eighteens being allowed into pubs – to protect ” public morals” (as the old fashioned term goes ) as impressionable children should not be witnessing such binge drinking.

    10) a ban on pubs removing tables and chairs to pack in more people and encourage vertical drinking.

    If the above does not work then we need to go back to the old system of all bars being forced to close two hours either side of a match.

  6. Sally

    If I understand the website costing, a corporate box at the RFU costs just under £1,600 per person per match. The best seats are somewhere over £500 per person per match. There are other, more expensive deals.
    Every councillor snugly parked in those gratis seats has effectively accepted a gift worth hundreds of pounds. From a large business. The same business which is above the rules about licensing, which the police or licensing would not even consider censuring. , Let’s be clear. The entire council is in bed with the RFU, pyjamas on, tucked in. Our elected representatives are in bed either because they really, really like the RFU, or because they hope to lead it to better behaviour ,and are a bit frightened. (Can you imagine the lawyers which would be wheeled in as soon as the council was actually assertive?)
    On a residential level, when the streets are loaded with rubbish, human waste and glass, when the whole area is in lockdown for the day ,while the senselessly drunk behave as they please, we are expected to put up and accept some flannel about listening to residents/working together etc.
    I would really like to hear a case for why this business should be treated differently to any other. As someone has written, sports stadiums do not have to bring antisocial behavior.

  7. Amir Tahir

    I assume from their silence that Twickenham Conservative councillors accepted free front row seats last Saturday too and still haven’t recovered sufficiently from ‘avin’ it large at the Faliraki-style piss-up to venture an opinion on this topic themselves.
    When they do recover it might be interesting to hear what they think (if only about their own contributions to the ‘party’).

  8. sweet-tooth

    I had to cycle through Twickenham on Sunday morning – broken bottles and glasses everywhere, not getting a puncture meant cycling in the centre of the lane. Rubbish everywhere. Returned home at 7.30pm someone urinating in my front garden!
    I live nr The Prince Albert pub on Hampton Rd – crowds of drunken fans on Sat night singing and swearing on the patio area outside – bar staff unaware of this until I telephoned. It’s not just the Town Ctr that suffers.
    (btw Army Navy games ..lots of the fans use the day as a re-union, just meeting up for a beer and watching the game on TV. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that but someone posted wondering why they didn’t actually go to the game.)

  9. Allan Storer

    Incidentally Tamir my reference to the Japanese Knotweed was metaphorical.

    • Amir Tahir

      I realise that, Alan. ‘Get a life’ was the banality used by Dorothy in her first comments (see below). I was being (unsuccessfully it appears) satirical.

  10. geedubya1

    I have been attending matches at Twickenham since 1978. I am a debenture holder at Twickenham, coach, referee and occasionally still play. These are some of the reasons I moved to Twickenham a few years ago.
    I have to say the scenes of devastation on Sunday morning surpassed anything I have seen before. I dropped my daughter and her friends off at the station early on Sunday morning and there was broken glass strewn across the road. The RFU and the World Sevens organisation planned this event to be an all day party, hence the fancy dress, it is something that has been brought over from the Hong Kong 7s (which I have also been to). In HK though it is mainly contained to the South Stand rather that the whole stadium, which limits the numbers on all day/night revellers.

    The RFU and World 7s, planned for this to be an all day party- so they should have planned and been prepared for the consequences – clean up teams, extra policing, extra toilets, bins etc limited the number of partyers etc etc.

    For the Army & Navy game the usual troubled match they manage to plan for it, close the bars, military police etc etc so they should have planned for this.
    I did spend most of Sunday trying to persuade my wife that the World Cup will be different, different audience, true rugby fans, later KOs, limited time before and after to drink etc – not sure she was convinced

    • David B

      Ban the fancy dress. If you want to wear fancy dress, go to a fancy dress party. If you want to watch sport, go to sport. The same puerile morons who can drink like men but hold it like little boys have ruined Test cricket. Don’t let them ruin rugby. For those who persist, double the police presence and install an on-site Magistrate’s Court with a cashpoint machine so they can pay their top-end fines. Sorted. Twickenham is not a free playground for drunken rubbish – and shame on the RFU for openly encouraging them for their own profit.

  11. Cllr Alexander Ehmann

    I’ve read and re-read the posts on this subject and it firmly corroborates my view (as expressed in the past to the RFU) that there remains a great deal more that they and the Council’s administration need to do, to ensure that residents are satisfied that their interests are being looked after appropriately.

    We’ve made these points as well as specific proposals for clean-ups, bin installations etc and will continue to do so. However, this level of dialogue about the issue requires more.

    Cllrs Acton, Khosa and I are considering inviting the RFU to participate in a ‘Clear the Air’ Public Meeting on these latest fixtures and to engage with the community in a meaningful way. We want to neutralise the frayed relations between residents and the RFU through constructive engagement and positive improvements to the issues at hand. Please do let us know if you think this would a good and constructive proposition and we will certainly explore it with the RFU.

    The Rugby World Cup is fast approaching and the three of us are very concerned that the relationship between community and venue is far from optimal. The World Cup will place a host of challenges on those living closest to the stadium and sometimes further afield in our Borough and having the right relationship with th RFU in advance of this international festival is an essential, not a nice to have. Hopefully, we as local Councillors can help us all to get there.

    • Amir Tahir

      This could be constructive but I think you need to make clear to the RFU that there are at least 3 distinct issues:
      1. ‘Normal’ match days
      2. The World Cup
      3. The encouragement, by the organisers, of the Faliraki-style Brits-on-the-piss events like that of last weekend.
      Number 3 is the one exercising much of the reaction here and is of a different nature from the other two.

    • Cllr Alexander Ehmann

      Amir. Completely understand the distinctions on the events and where the ‘flashpoint’ is. The only relationship between the three is that ultimately a venue of the type of Twickenham stadium exists and functions in part down to a general acceptance and tolerance of its cumulative activities and so poor performance on any one of these has the prospect of ‘contaminating’ resident’s forbearance towards any activities.

      But rest assured – I know where we need to focus our attention.

    • Councillor Ehmann,
      Personally I don’t need to attend a “bottom up” management style meeting “to clear the air” with the RFU. when I know it’s only point will be one of appeasement, and the RFU dangling carrots. What I want is to see is yourselves as a council face up to your responsibilities and seriously review the Stadiums liquor license, security, crowd control etc.
      Additionally I want yourselves in opposition to seriously question your Conservative colleagues who are accepting gratuities from the RFU and kick up one holy stink about this unethical practice. They are public servants and in no more a privileged position than council employees whom I’m sure would be disciplined in a similar situation.

    • My reference to ” gratuities ” are the World Cup Tickets according to Councillor Ehmann his Conservative colleagues are receiving.

    • Sally

      Coltlr Ehman. Thank you for responding to this and for having the integrity to refuse the free front row World Cup tickets. However, I groaned when I read some of the phrases in your letter because I have been reading them for years. They mean little and I am afraid are pretty much Mr Barraclough – style waffle.
      “Constructive partnership ” .In what sense are you and the RFU collaborating? What power do you have? They-really don’t give a damn. Why on earth should they? When has the council ever threatened clear consequences or insisted? Far from it. The RFU has members of the council in the front row in free seats, they are allowed to influence planning outside the stadium. They know from time to time they need to look empathic at public meetings.
      “More transparent/constructive relations//level of dialogue requires more//engage with the community in a meaningful way./raise a more complete picture.” What??? Are we in group therapy? You describe the ” challenges “to residents the World Cup will bring. That is a nice reframe of :”appalling problems if last Saturday is anything to go by””
      The problems are very clear. The RFU need to pay to fix them.
      If the council did treat the RFU like any other business and actually set better limits you would see quite another side to them. There is a comedy sketch in which a negotiator keeps reporting on his discussions with Genghis Kahn (” I am afraid he insists on the looting and burning but we are having ongoing discussions about the putting to the sword” ) it is a bit like this situation.
      Incidentally, what are the “reasonable trade offs” for living near to a rugby stadium which has been allowed to increase its seating and number of games like Twickenham?

    • Sally

      Apologies, that should have been Cllr Ehmann

    • Amir Tahir

      Brilliant spearing of the bullshit language, Sally.

    • Cllr Alexander Ehmann

      I am trying to deal with these issues in practical terms. I confess that as local Councillors we can’t place binding demands on the RFU or the Conservative administration, but as with many other local issues the combined efforts of resident support and actions of Councillors can (and does) produce real results.

      I would point to other issues on which my Councillor colleagues, Ben Khosa, Geoff Acton and I were furnished with no direct power to act, but were able to achieve outcomes that were for the benefit of the communities concerned (e.g. St Margaret’s footbridge retention and the recent news that REEC development will have its access via Langhorn Drive rather than the originally proposed residential roads off of Egerton Road).

      In terms of my suggestions about engagement – they are far from hollow points. Engagement for engagement’s sake is a waste of everybody’s time, but if the RFU/Council listen to residents and ACT on the concerns then surely the medium by which the communication takes place (engagement) is worth it.

      As ward councillors (in the opposition party) we don’t have the executive power to act in the ways you set out. We can, however, bring matters to the attention of the RFU and Council, support residents in gaining their rightful share of voice and in pressing the case for change.

      We are exploring the prospect of a public meeting involving the RFU – I think that this is the type of community action that people want to see their elected representatives pursue. It may not satisfy everybody, but we are trying our level best to give voice to residential concerns. I assure you that I’m not afraid of speaking up for the people of my community and will continue to do so.

    • dellboy

      Councilor, you as the council have the power to revoke their licence to sell alcohol, you can pass legislation to reduce the number of events.
      If you say that you cannot then you are of no use to the residents of this borough.

    • Cllr Alexander Ehmann

      Dellboy,

      You are right to say “The Council have the power to revoke a licence to sell alcohol” but there will be tight controls on the reasons for such a revolution . It also doesn’t mean that I individually have such powers (which I don’t). This issue is dealt with by the Regulatory Committee (I am not a member of this committee) of the Council which is formed in proportion to the size of the Parties represented in Full Council. As such, my point stands about the Conservative administration having more say in such matters. Via-a-vis “legislation to reduce the number of events” – the Council, let alone Cllrs do not have legislative powers and I’m not sure whether the Council (as a whole) would even have other recourse to limit the number of fixtures via any other mechanism.

      Regardless, I’m not sure that reducing the number of fixtures is the proportionate response or the one that a majority of residents would favour. I am working to get the RFU and Council to address the issues with certain match days rather than the suggestion you put forward.

      So when you suggest that if I cannot single-handedly reduce the number of events or withdraw a license I am of little use – I can only say that the same realities of the limits of power exist for every individual Councillor. I am not alone, but neither am I inactive and dispassionate about the issues as some others are and at least I am seeking solutions to problems and am putting my view and proposed actions forward to all those who read this website.

      I would suggest that within the very really confines of power that exist for elected Councillors, I and my Lib Dem colleagues in St Margaret’s and North Twickenham are doing quite a lot to resolve the individual instances of concern and also to try and force an RFU/Council appreciation of the wider unhappiness amongst residents and encourage an improvement in their actions to deal with these concerns.

    • Cllr Alexander Ehmann

      Apologies for mistype “revolution” – should read “revocation” – darn spell check on iPhone!

    • Ben Khosa

      Please also see my reply to Allan Storer Re Licensing

  12. Anonymous

    So it’s confirmed that Dorothy is an RFU plant? OK then.

    • Amir Tahir

      ‘Plant’ in what sense?

    • Allan Storer

      Fallopian japonica

    • Amir Tahir

      Bothered by an indestructible, invasive,4 metres per year super-weed? I used to live next door to a triffid farm!
      You people need to get a life.

    • Allan Storer

      Dear Amir,
      The tag “get a life” is an apparent loose theme bandied around by this hedonistic, bullying non thinking culture, with respect for no one. And that is what it boils down to, irrespective of political persuasion or wealth.
      I still am interested in its definition. Can you please clarify.
      Meanwhile I can back my argument up whichever way, be it academic or moral. Simply the residents are subjected to a mindless bullying culture here who have no respect for others except when they are themselves in need.

    • Whatever, Dorothy has done a good job as a catalyst, could well be a double agent.

  13. Tomalom

    Dorothy

    Are you visually and nasally challenged ?
    Or do you work for the RFU ?
    Speaking of which I’ve just visited the RFU website and there is no mention of the weekends events and the appalling aftermath, nor of the horrendous accident at the ground :-
    http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/12958144.Witnesses_describe_horror_fall_of_man_at_rugby_sevens/?ref=mr&lp=1
    RFU, the residents of Twickenham (and Richmond) deserve a public apology and a commitment to better for the future especially with the upcoming World Cup.

  14. I trust you will welcome a contribution from across the river in Richmond town.

    Richmond town received its fair share of the flow of humanity and the associated Antisocial Behaviour and Nuisance from the Sevens event on Saturday. For a fair number of the crowd it seemed to be about wanting to party rather than having participated in a sporting event. For the upcoming Rugby World Cup with Richmond town being used by many as a staging post on their journey to the Stadium and with the compounding effect of the RWC Fanzone being located on Old Deer Park it seems likely that there could be “more of the same” for many days during the RWC when people might just turn up in the area “wanting to party”. Some of the exodus from the Fanzone may well head back across Twickenham Bridge towards St Margarets and North Twickenham.

    What I noted from two walks around the town on Saturday (one early evening, one late evening) included:

    (1) police and ambulance attendance at an incident outside of White Cross pub, incident occurred at approx 6.30pm. Incident may or may not have been related to rugby, large number of rugby fans in the area. At close to midnight, the area still taped off and scene of crime officers there and still evidence of blood on cobblestones.

    (2) at least one individual swimming in river.

    (3) the streets of town littered with discarded pieces of costumes, drink and food related rubbish.

    (4) large numbers, often in large groups, of loud and very drunk individuals many in fancy dress.

    (5) public urination.

    (6) much litter by the riverside, including broken glass underfoot, appeared to be no litter picking going on all evening.

    (6) by the Riverside much use by pubs of lightweight, single use, plastic pint “glasses” for beer, a significant number of which ended up in the River. Either thrown into the River or when discarded as litter blew into the River. And perhaps with a high tide at 2.38 am many more would have been carried into the River by the tide.

    (7) at close to midnight, and in quick succession, saw two individuals separately walk straight in front of moving vehicles. The first, a female, did not seem to know what she was doing and her friends grabbed her from in front of a cab which had braked. The second, a male in fancy dress costume, walked out in front of a car, held his arms out and shouted to his friends “I have extraterrestrial powers to stop traffic”. And these two incidents happened within 40 metres of where a group of Police were talking to a group at the side of the road.

    In terms of the aftermath on Saturday evening the one saving factor was possibly the weather for the temperature did drop quite significantly on Saturday evening otherwise the crowds might have lingered far longer.

  15. Cooper500

    There is currently a LBRUT notice outside the Cabbage Patch saying they have applied for a street trading licence to offer food and drink from 4 tables and 24 chairs. This is clearly a land grab by the pub to make use of the larger pavements outside. I believe the pub already have plenty of indoor and outdoor trading space so I’ll be objecting. Reference number is ST78 with representations due by 3rd June to Licencing Authority, 44 York Street, Twickenham, TW1 3EZ

    • Allan Storer

      Oh so this is the reason for the wide pavements. So pubs can accomidate more customers ?
      What about street furniture. Methinks of Sandys the fishmonger who was made to take his lovely flower display down and yet the Cabbage Patch want to grab a whole pavement. Sickening money grabbers

  16. Great to know someone enjoyed their party…

    • Sally

      Perhaps the posters could forward their home addresses? I am sure a group of locals would be more than happy to hold an impromptu 24 hour noisy party in front of or indeed in their gardens, leaving copious amounts of human waste, and litter, not forgetting the broken glass. What is OK for us is OK for them.
      Those statements really exemplify the contempt in which Twickenham is held by many of the party crowd.. This is not, despite the RFU spin a place they respect. IIt’s just a big open ground where they can get blind drunk behave like pigs.Why not? No limits are enforced.
      The idea that Twickenham only exists as a car park,open air toilet and bin for the rugby is not confined to the party people. Residents rights come way way behind the paying punters in the eys of the RFU and the RFU come first for the council.
      It’s not just that we are third in line. We aren’t even in the queue! Despite PR flannel about “working in partnership with ….good community relations are our priority “etc.

  17. Ben Khosa

    I will feed this through to the Council clear up team and also try and ensure Hannah of the RFU monitors these webpages (if she doesn’t already) as a lot of useful information here for her and in fact the Council to act upon.

    • Sally

      Thanks Ben but I think we need more than the cleanup team. We need far more cleaners and police and this needs to be funded by the RFU.
      Any undertakings needs to be very specific and the consequences of them not being done need to be crystal clear.”X million toward increased police. The so and so match cannot be hosted without this. .” The RFU makes hundreds of millions out of our area.They can spend more on this ,they just would rather we did.
      Pubs who wish to rake in match day proceeds must provide portable toilets. Or they cannot open on the day.
      I have observed several council regimes and they all fall into two ways of dealing with the RFU.
      Firstly , being very susceptible to the corporate freebies, nice seats, meetings where they get to feel jolly important and the RFU execs apparently hang on their every word. Before you know it the councillors are romantically involved with the RFU and afraid to set limits in case they dump us all and um, take their stadium elsewhere. Cue lots of photos of rapacious RFU execs and councillors flourishing a ball and simpering at the stadium . Before you know it the RFU also want to extend their influence to developments in Twickenham and the councillors are only too pleased to agree.
      The second is the “good relationship” approach. Like Mr Barraclough in Porrige the councillors shrink from setting limits and hope that the RFU will listen to their pained raising of problems. They are far too impressed with statements of intent: “Residents concerns are our highest priority” and don’t demand action or enforce limits.
      Could you please get some specifics out of them? It’s not just that the cleaners were a bit slow.

    • Allan Storer

      I agree with you Sally. Unfortunately Ben Khosa has not replied to my email calling for more proactive action as you have also pointed out. Our councillors are tinkering around the fringes in a reactive manner instead of coming up with something. Probably they are “too in bed ” with the RFU and all the functions they attend. Ideas is grandeur and brainwashed by big business. Forgetting they are here to serve the residents.
      Below is a copied message from one of the misfits who attends definitely with anti social behaviour in mind.

      @alexseeeee Can’t wait lad! @twickerati, you coming? God forbid there’s an empty can on the floor to ruin your day! 🏼

    • Allan Storer

      Hi Ben,
      I would appreciate a reply to the points I made earlier. Cannot yourself and fellow council colleagues adopt a more proactive campaign to look after the interests of your ward members.
      You all come across as a passive, unimaginative bunch. No wonder people are losing interest in local politics.
      Cannot but feel you have all climbed in bed with the RFU and are overly impressed by big business with all it’s perks and meetings etc. meetings can become a very cosy situation of us and them. Truth is the situation could get nasty of a resident challellenges one of these yobos. I’m the last person to have a go at rugby due as you know to the fact that I have and do benefit indirectly from the sport too by way of my paintings, but this is not rugby we are talking about. It is civil/public disorder, vandalism, menacing, trespassing, alcoholism and aggression, with issues of public health and safety. Is our council prepared to idly stand by and just comment?

    • Ben Khosa

      Allan

      I take on board all you and others say and we are due to meet RFU on 28th
      I will do you and others a comprehensive reply soon. Sorry just a bit busy at the moment

    • Ben Khosa

      Allan

      As you may have already gathered we are taking yours and others concerns forward. In fact I had already contacted Hannah of my own accord as a starter.
      Some of your concerns will have been replied to already

      As you know I actually live closer to the stadium than your self and experience all the problems you mention to the same if not more intensity on two fronts: Home and my shop.

      Now turning to the licensing issue the process is:

      1/ The Police can ask for a license to be reviewed when the license can be revoked or conditioned as you suggest and clearly they have not seen the need to do this so far or they would have done so.

      In light of the recent issues I will however ask them to consider this when we meet on the 28th

      2/If and when the RFU themselves apply for a variation to an existing license it can be further conditioned but the licensing panel would need to be “persuaded” of the need to do this at that time.

      Of course the hope is common sense prevails and the RFU clean their act up and the above is unnecessary

      New facilities at the station open on 18th June with working commencing at road level September October

      Re your concern about the caliber of your current Councillors I am sure all political parties are open to new and more talented people and the Lib Dems along with others will be assessing the situation carefully prior to next elections meanwhile we plod on.

    • Thank you Ben for your reply. I feel things are or have been allowed to slide. It is quite understandable that residents feel the council is hand in glove with the RFU.
      Despite your protestations to the contrary which I believe, ther appears to be no vociferous protestation. Nor is it a pro active approach.
      Secondly your Liberal colleague says your Conservative colleagues have accepted tickets to the World Cup cannot be ethical. That says to me they are in bed with the RFU. How can their decisions be without bias when discussing RFU issues. The monetary value alone without the privilege smacks of bad practice. I won’t use the over subscribed term “hypocrisy” because it is plain to see this as pure “bad practice”. It snacks of nepotism and can even open up the doors to charges of corruption.
      At the end of the day elected Councillors and paid employees alike are public servants. Please ask your Conservative colleagues whether or not it is permissible for council employees to accept gratuities from embers of the public.
      This situation is totally unacceptable and yourselves in opposition should really be confronting this head on. Whilst all of you refrain from so doing then you are all open to the charge of cosying up to the RFU !
      Those that do nothing in the face of the bully by their inaction, condone the bully.
      The street situation in Twwicjenham over the weekend was totally acceptable. I find it hard to believe that our council are not shouting protests from the rooftops. Inane and ineffective comes to mind.

    • Ben Khosa

      Allan

      We met with the RFU pre Army and Navey, we went through the arrangements and learened of extra precautions like extra teams (over and above the norm for this event) patrolling the area. At the time we were satisfied and had no reason to foresee what happened neither are we trained in detailed crowd management. Ok on the day this proved to be not effective and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
      Watching the events unfolding at the weekend I was on the phone to Hannah Barrat prior to a single resident having prompted me and obviously again as complaints came in.
      We are now back banging on the RFU door. We jumped on the Chelsea issue. We are in the thick of it and delivered on the College issue, the A316 Bridge issue to name but a few
      How proactive can one be.
      In this Ward Cllrs Alex Ehmann, Geoff Acton and I take great pride in what we do. In the last elections we achieved something like a +5% swing whereas in other areas we suffered significant -swing so we got something right last time though I’m not claiming that gives us any right to be presumptuous this time.

    • Yes and the actions of yourself and Councillor Ehmann are commendable in that you are listening and contributing to this discussion.
      However it’s council policy per se and Richmond Council as a collective we perceive. Where are your conservative colleagues and what are they going to do about this ?
      Possibly the Lib/Dems as the onlyveffective opposition needs to be seen to becmore vociferous in attacking and criticising the Councillors that are receiving the free hand outs such as the World Cup Tickets. It is bad practice for a person in engaged in public service to profit this way and if they were council employees instead of Councillors they would face disciplinary proceedings.
      There is more bad news re. the abysmal alcholic fuelled weekend promoted by the RFU and Martiott in that as you probably know a young person more than likely intoxicated and in the same partying mind set fell down a staircase and is still in a coma. ! The responsibility is firmly at the RFU door. By irresponsibly promoting this alcholic fuelled weekend aimed at partying youngsters the RFU and Marriott have shown a total contempt for the safety of its customers and local residents alike. Please can you bring this before Council and bring them to realise how much they are letting us all down.

    • Allan Storer

      Tweeter from a so called Rugby Supporter.

      Xela ‏@alexseeeee
      @JamesHitch91 @twickerati same again next year ?

      El Hitcho – ‏@JamesHitch91

      @alexseeeee Can’t wait lad! @twickerati, you coming? God forbid there’s an empty can on the floor to ruin your day! 😂🙈🏉🎉🙌🏼
      12:03 pm – 18 May 2015

    • Cllr Alexander Ehmann

      I’d just like to come back on the suggestion we local Councillors are somehow ‘in hoc’ to the RFU. This is completely inaccurate and I’ll explain why, before offering what I hope is a constructive intervention.

      To start with I would like it noted as a matter of public record, that prior to being elected in 2014 and indeed thereafter I have voiced significant concerns that the RFU was being complacent about the residential community around it, including on issues of litter, public disorder, consultation over the forthcoming Rugby World Cup and notably its disdain for the clear opposition to the prospect of Twickenham housing Chelsea Football Club.

      My Liberal Democrat Councillor colleagues and I have met with the RFU to raise these and many other more practical concerns around the provision of litter bins and the like, but I absolutely support the view that seems prevalent on this website (and more broadly in our community) that while we all accept that there are reasonable trade-offs for living in proximity to a Rugby Stadium of Twickenham’s size, we expect the RFU to be more transparent, responsive and adaptable to emerging residential concerns. Incidentally, the issues aren’t simply with the RFU, but also with the Conservative Council who should be much more assertive in terms of the requirements and expectations that it has of a community-minded business and sporting venue of Twickenham’s type.

      I would add that my fellow Liberal Democrat Councillors and I are far from captured by the glare of the RFU or the Rugby World Cup 2015. We are constructive partners and enter into a direct but reasonable dialogue on most matters. The big issue is that the RFU have not sufficiently acted on resident concerns. I’d remind readers too that it is the Conservative Group of Councillors that have accepted the offer of free Rugby World Cup tickets (and will be attending), where my colleagues and I have declined them on the grounds of appropriateness (and will not be attending). We wish the Rugby World Cup well, but we don’t need complimentary front row seats to show our wholesome support for a great tournament.

      However, that doesn’t dull our interest in seeing genuine improvement in mitigating the worst impacts of big events at the Stadium. Cllr Ben Khosa, Cllr Geoff Acton and I have said that we welcome individual case-work about specific litter problems or reports of anti-social behaviour as we can act on resolutions where possible, but also more broadly build a picture of the level and type of issues experienced – so that we can raise a more complete picture with the RFU and Council.

      Cllrs Acton, Khosa and I are considering inviting the RFU to participate in a ‘Clear the Air’ Public Meeting on these latest fixture and to engage with the community in a meaningful way. We want to neutralise the frayed relations between residents and the RFU through constructive engagement and positive improvements to the issues at hand. Let us know if you think this would a good and constructive proposition and we will certainly explore it with the RFU.

      The Rugby World Cup is fast approaching and I am very concerned that the relationship between community and venue is far from optimal. The World Cup will place a host of challenges on those living closest to the stadium and sometimes further afield in our Borough and having the right relationship with the RFU in advance of this international festival is an essential, not a nice to have. Hopefully, we as local Councillors can help us all to get there.

      Cllr Alexander Ehmann

    • Ben Khosa

      I might add that when the issue of Chelsea coming to Twickenham arose Cllr Ehmann got on his computer designed and got printed a huge poster (paid for out of his pocket) inviting residents to sign up to a petition against the proposal.

      I “dared” to display this poster in my shop window for weeks/months encouraging residents to rise up against this.

      We wrote to the RFU on three separate occasions putting them on the spot on this issue. I hand delivered these letters myself.

      I don’t give up easily but if people still think we have a soft spot for the RFU …..well

    • Ben thank you for the work you and your fellow St Margarets’ Ward councillors Alex and Geoff have been doing to help the Twickenham Riverside Ward with the clear up. The three Conservative ward Councillors, Chappell, Hill and Dias are strangely quiet and absent.
      The problems connected to the RFU events seems to be getting worse. Certainly the residents behind the station and those behind the Cabbage Patch suffer from badly behaved RFU fans – the usual story: urinating and defecating in people’s gardens; leaving litter strew all over the street.
      It might be worthwhile discovering what deal the Tories have done with the RFU which seems to be allowed to get away with the minimum of expenditure. I am sure Hannah will be able to give you some idea.
      What are the clean-up costs to the local tax payer after each match, do we have sufficient police on hand on match days – and who pays for their services, and why is the RFU not required to provide more toilet facilities?
      We need to get more organisation for these match days – the World Cup is all too near – and the RFU should not expect the residents of LBRuT to pay. The Council needs to stir itself into action.

    • Ben Khosa

      Susan

      As you know we are moving things forward and thank you for your kind words it just helps to keep plodding on.

  18. Pam Lockley

    Like most people on this site I accept rugby is part of Twickenham but I also believe drunken anti-social behaviour can never be excused. As this happens in connection with rugby events, it is up to RFU to take action to stop it and bear all the costs of policing,provision of extra toilets, cleaning up. The Council, on our behalf should use all their powers to require this of RFU. As residents already lose the use of roads during rugby events, I would like to be assured that my Council tax is not used to subsidise private profits. Pam

  19. twickerman

    We’ve known for a long time that the RFU don’t give a toss what happens on the town centre side of the station, despite bringing 10s of 1000s of military & 7s rugby fans into Twickers for a massive party (aka piss-up).

    For example they’re supposed to provide loos outside Travelodge, but regular fail to do so, like the last two weekends.
    The RFU wash their hands of any responsibility for loos in the town centre, saying it’s the pubs’ responsibility.
    Unfortunately, the pubs don’t provide enough loos, and also thousands of fans bring gallons of their own booze and/or top up at waitrose and other off-licences (all of which take the easy money without providing loos).

    It’s hardly a surprise that every single nook, cranny and alley around the London Road booze zone is running with piss even before the matches kick off, no thanks to the mimimal number of police turning up late, then turning a blind eye.

    The RFU seem to be doing their best to piss-off us town centre residents in the run up to the World Cup. They obviously realise that neither the Council or Police are interested in tackling the problem or standing up to the RFU.
    It’s simply not acceptable for our Riverside councillors to keep on ignoring the problem, in the hope that the next day clean up will put things right. That’s too late.
    Nor is it acceptable for the RFU, Council and police to keep passing the buck to each other, as they have for many years.

    This is a great opportunity for new MP Dr Mathias to step in and take action to keep our streets clean, hygienic and safe. Let’s see what she and the Riverside councillors can do with the so called RFU Community Relations Manager, Hannah Barrett, to improve things before the next two big games in just 2 weeks time.

    The pissed upon residents of Twickenham town centre will be watching closely.

    Maybe it’s time to share the problem with regional and national news teams… perhaps by ‘picture framing’ every pee stream, steaming turd and pile of boozy Twickerlitter?!

    • Amir Tahir

      ‘This is a great opportunity for new MP Dr Mathias to step in and take action’.
      Mmm. Wouldn’t hold your breath on that one given her legendary local-issue inactivity as a councillor. Though she seems to be in the front row of all the new intake pictures since the election so maybe she’s developing sharper elbows.
      Your idea in the last para is likely to be more productive, though. Linking the obscene amounts of money grabbed by the RFU with some of the squalor which is its by-product.

    • Dorothy

      I live in Twickenham town centre and have never seen the area running with piss as you claim.

      It seems that Imodium instants would help a lot of residents on this site who suffer from verbal diahorea.

    • Cooper 500

      Dorothy if you do live in Twickenham town centre as you claim then after the any big match at Twickenham (the Prreimership Final on 30th May will do) pop along to the steps in Mary’s Terrace leading down from London road in the early evening and I’ll pretty much guarantee the area will have copious amounts of piss and stink to high heaven. If you’re in luck they’re may be some vomit & crap. Waterproof boots are recommended.

    • Jon

      Satire can be powerful – may I suggest we change Lord True’s title to Lord Piss – as the buck stops with him for lax licencing controls which allow public disorder to flourish.

  20. Purple Haze

    The problem of litter and people using the town as an open public toilet has been around for years and gets worse every season, mainly as there are more matches and bigger crowds.
    People in Central Twickenham, particularly around London Road and Whitton Road, are plagued by filth and rubbish after every game.
    We have made countless complaints to the Council, RFU, councillors and our local MP to try and sort things out. We have even dealt directly with pubs who allow noisy and intimidating behaviour to take place on their premises.
    As folk have pointed out, not only is the rubbish unsightly and unhygienic but with so much broken glass and urine left around it is dangerous, especially to young children.
    The level of rubbish and filth left in the streets after the Sevens game was totally unacceptable.
    After the recent Army vs Navy game, in Station Yard, Mary’s Terrace and under the railway bridge, and on the steps to the station, rubbish was still left there on Monday morning, along with the stench of urine.
    In 2005, after shocking and unruly behaviour from people turning up for the Army vs Navy game, policing and security was tightened up along with more efficient rubbish collection and the provision of more public toilets.
    Since then the situation has deteriorated. On some days toilets aren’t even provided outside The Cabbage Patch and so people use the nearby streets or gardens as public conveniences.
    There are also more people turning up in Twickenham on match days who don’t even go and watch the game at the ground, but stay in the town drinking all day. This is mainly down to the fact that the Army vs Navy and Sevens games are promoted by their sponsors as being ‘parties’.
    The Council and RFU have a lot of questions to answer about all this as it is perceived that they constantly disregard the concerns of local residents in the pursuit of profit. During some rugby matches many residents don’t leave their homes because of the disruption, but now they have to put up with bad behaviour and piles of rubbish as well.
    All this has the echoes of the Council some years ago trying to promote Twickenham as a ’Resort Destination.’ In reality, because the town had so many pubs open long hours, it was a place where you could get smashed until the early hours, which of course had a severe and detrimental effect on local residents and their quality of life.

    • Cooper 500

      I’ve also noticed recently that the pubs are still pretty full when the matches are on. This was particularly the case with the Army & Navy match when Railway Approach outside the Cabbage Patch was blocked with drinkers.

      I’ve previously complained and been told by the RFU that they are only responsible the paying for loos between the station & the ground. The pubs have to agree to fund additional loos otherwise they won’t be provided. My impression is that the RFU are calling the shots. I was surprised to hear at the weekend that the RFU (or their contractors) now decide when public roads should be opened and closed. I thought the police or LBRUT would be responsible for this.

  21. Ben Khosa

    It seems the clean up operation was caught out and tried to concentrate on the roads leading up to ground at the expense of others. Local Lib Dem Ward Cllrs including Cllr Alex Ehmann were active before and on the day. I personally had phone and email conversations with Hannah Barret and residents about the issues we are talking about here on a “breaking news” basis as the day went on and complaints arose.
    We have regular meetings with Hannah and are scheduled to attend the match day commitee where amongst other things I personally will be asking the question “why, knowing the attendance figures in advance (at least approximately) was the clear up operation caught out” and what contingencies are in place for the RWC and ensure a proper review is put in place.

    • Allan Storer

      Hi Ben,
      A lot of what is happening is a threat to public order and anti social behaviour. I’m sure if we residents challenged these drunkards there would be violence.
      If demonstrators in central London behaved this way there would be a massive police presence, strict crowd control and other contingencies. If this type of behaviour ensued from a pub or nightclub it would be refused a liquor licence and closed down. We residents are left to our own devices to protect our property and personal safety. Sadly neglected by the RFU and council alike. The police cannot put more officers on the ground because neither the RFU or council will fund them.
      The council obviously cannot close the Stadium down but can certainly look at the drinks licensing position and either refuse the Stadiums application to sell alcohol or strictly restrict it. Similar situation with pubs. If the area is unsafe and being trashed through alcoholic vandalism then simply remove the root cause.
      I feel our elected councillors are quite ineffective in dealing with the situation and have not heard of any taking a strident pro active stance on behalf of residents.
      Additionally we were promised a new super station (railway) many will be interested to realise that the main structure is basically several toilets for the specific use of rugby fans. This will soon become shabby and smelly, particularily with the types attracted to come here.
      The Rugby Stadium is giving Twickenham a reputation sure ! But not the one we want.

  22. George Bailey

    Certain rugby events have become a victim of their own success. They’ve got too big. There’s no proper infrastructure offered by the RFU and LBRuT to deal with over-attended games. All the bins were overflowing from very early on in the evening. It’s not just rugby fans who come; students come who are not necessarily interested in the games. They know Twickenham is party-central during Rugby 7’s.

    What’s needed is:

    1) Litter collectors should be moving amongst the crowds collecting litter all night.
    2) More toilets (paid for by RFU not the Publicans) should be provided
    3) Large gangs of litter-pickers should be out in force by first light the following morning
    4) More sensible pub opening and closure times needs to put in place. Closing all pubs in central Twickenham corralled crowds down to the river, where they stayed till well after the pubs were closed. That’s when problems mostly occurred.
    5) After the pubs have closed, party-goers should be encouraged on their homeward journey and not to stay in Twickenham – i.e. a curfew.

    Essentially if LBRuT can afford to create wider pavements for rugby drinkers to drink on, they can and must afford to keep the pavements clean. And they must purchase a mechanical pavement cleaner – the new paving stones are already nasty.

    Twickenham is not the tail to the RFU’s dog.

    • Allan Storer

      Surely we should have our pavements steam cleaned following a match.

    • Anonymous

      1) to 5) are ok but I think you need an extra one.
      Number 6) : a good-humoured and ‘light touch’ baton charge.

  23. There does seem to be a culture developing around these events that rubbish can be dropped locally and this is OK as it will be picked up by contractors later. Whilst contractors do a wonderful job in clearing up the streets this remain unacceptable as an approach in my view as:

    1. It takes responsibility away from those generating the rubbish
    2. It contributes to a wider lax attitude towards standards of behaviour
    3. In the interim the streets look terrible
    4. Glass is broken and ends up as a risk to tyres for bikes and cars
    5. After every event, but particularly when it’s windy, the rubbish goes into the rivers (Thames and Crane) and blows into wildlife areas where contractors cannot reach it. Once there it causes long term despoilment and environmental harm
    6. Contractors are expected to do the unacceptable. I saw one contractor risking life and limb picking up rubbish in the gutter of the A316 last night as traffic streamed past him
    7. I would bet that none of this litter is being recycled

    I think the RFU needs to get a grip on this problem and institute sufficient bins (including recycling bins) along with a culture which means its customers use them

    • This is very much about culture. It’s long been said that rugby fans are different from soccer fans – no hooliganism or fights, basically – but it’s changing. Are all the people in fancy dress rugby fans? Ten years ago most people seemed to be there as fans, to watch the match. Is that still true? It’s still most but the number going for a laugh seems to be increasing yearly. For me, the idea of going to a match after six or so pints is insane, but then I have a rubbish bladder. Of course you’re going to need a loo!

      Where’s the publicity – respect the town! Don’t get bladdered! Don’t chuck your litter on the ground!

      Some attention also needs to be paid to the gridlock – nearly an hour on the bus from Staines Road west of the Green to East Twickenham on Saturday. If just a couple of the police standing around in London Road were on the Staines Road / Hampton Road junction there’s be less light-jumping. Other areas will have their own issues.

      RFU – dozens of portaloos, hundreds if necessary. Some effort to change the culture. Litter pickers everywhere.

      Police – spread out from the immediate area of the ground; there are other issues out there.

      LBRuT – ideas please to minimise the effects on locals. Some park and ride sites perhaps?

  24. Steve P

    Is it me or is the stadium steadily turning into a giant alcohol-filled death star looming menacingly over the neighbourhood and lasering anyone who comes too close while not wearing a rugby shirt or dressed as a green chicken?

  25. Anonymous

    I see none of this and I live on the path to the ground. No vomit, no rivers of urine. It might happen somewhere, sometime but it’s not an epidemic. As for the crowds on the Whitton Rd just put your head down and charge and you’ll find they part like the waters of the Red Sea. And as for sh*gging; that I must see. At 87 it would refresh my memory.
    And by the way I hate rugby.

    • Dorothy

      I agree with you. A Twickenham resident has tweeted a photograph of a single green glass bottle and tried to say rubbish and litter is a problem on Rugby days!!

    • Dorothy, you are missing the point, either accidentally, deliberately or possibly just for the fun of it. The point here is that most residents accept the disruption that occurs on most rugby days as part of the ‘price’ of living in Twickenham. This weekend was in a different league from the vast majority of other games. Even staff from the Barmy Arms and White Swan were commenting on how bad it was. It was a very different kind of crowd and a different level of mess.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not your doctor but I would suggest that charging groups of rugby fans at the age of 87 is probably not a life-extending activity. On the other hand, a bit of occasional sh*gging (whatever that might be) could be just the thing to keep you in trim. I’m a bit worried about your ‘I see none of this’, though. Specsavers have some appealing offers at the moment.

    • My wife and I returned home at around 9:20pm after a day out of the area. The state of the pavements around the shops at the north end of Whitton Road was truly shocking. Sorry but this is beyond a joke. In previous years our front garden in Chudleigh Road has twice (to my knowledge) been used as a toilet. Unacceptable frankly.

    • Dorothy, re your other comment. Not me, just the perils of shared devices.

  26. Anonymous

    It’s a little depressing that it seems to be accepted that the word ‘partying’ necessarily means boys (of a variety of ages) drinking themselves (even more) stupid, behaving like ‘2 pot screamers’, becoming doubly incontinent and then breaking things. Whose idea of a party is that?
    As for worries about the World Cup, I imagine that the diluting presence of non-British fans (and fewer kids) will probably have a beneficial effect. I realise that this is not just an English problem but (are you there, Mr Edwards?) it is one area where we lead the world.

    • Sally

      I totally agree with your second point but take exception with your first. No, no no, its not just “boys” of various ages screaming drunk, peeing in the street, throwing up and breaking things. That I cannot allow. The raddled wreck shouting “Farrk! Farrk!” who draped herself over the bonnet of my car when I was unwise enough to stop at the lights on Saturday was certainly female, as was the girl peeing into the bushes at the doctor’s surgery. In the latter case, so much was on view that no doubt was possible.
      I refuse to accept that this is just the price one must pay for..remind me what exactly does the RFU do to conterbalance this?

    • Dorothy

      No I’m not missing the point here Twickerati and there’s no need to be sarcastic.

      The issue is one of rubbish nothing more. Rubbish can be cleaned up and perhaps those who decided to take photos of the rubbish (yourself included) would have been better spending their time picking it up.

  27. Iconimous

    I’m an enthusiastic rugby match attender and local resident and enjoy a pint before, during, and after a game, But 7s day really has got totally out of hand. It’s a great marketing success but the deliberate targetting by the RFU and Marriott of the 18-25 crowd and active encouragement to them to come and party on the streets of Twickenham, St. Margarets, & Richmond has delivered the inevitable scenes witnessed this weekend.

    This is very short-sighted by the RFU and promoting the 7s day as a massive party rather than traditional sporting event will have a negative knock on effect on the much wider game and other match days at Twickenham (and indeed the Stoop etc). This is licenced as a rugby match but in reality it’s one big ‘spring break’ piss up with Twickenham the venue and Rugby the justification. LBRT really need to see this event for what it is and what it isn’t and reconsider the licence

    If LBRT are in any doubt that this is all about the partying rather than the rugby, Saturday is a sell out while the Sunday – which is the actual finals day – features lots of empty unsold seats.

    One of the things the RFU is rumoured to be looking at to address the sunday empty seat problem is to build on the party element success to turn it this into friday evening 4-10PM and all day saturday event instead of sat/sun so it’s one long party. (Other 7s events in some other countries are run like this).

    At a personal level. Walking from Eel PIe Island to York House with two young children early saturday evening we had to negotiate masses of broken glass, vomit, urine streams, the chaotic stumblings and bumpings from hundreds of extremely drunk – and in some cases disorderly – individuals and dozens of people urinating in the street with no attempt at any discretion – despite the immediate presence of two primary school aged kids.

    It seems that being publicly drunk, disorderly, and exposing yourself in front of children are all considered OK as long as you are part of a large hip 7s crowd sponsored by Marriott and encouraged by the RFU. Under ‘normal’ circumstances I believe such actions would get you arrested.

    Marriott – as the people who sponsored this mahem and anarchy on our doorsteps you might like to think what brand associations you are building. The attendees aren’t your target market unless you are looking to get into the stag and hen party market in 5-10 yrs time. Many of the locals are.

    • Are the irresponsible idiots at Marriott and the RFU reading these comments, I wonder? So sorry to hear what your children were subjected to.

    • Amir Tahir

      Is it the Marriott 7s after the Marriott hotel chain or after the recreational habits of the alcoholic, self-immolating Small Faces singer, Steve?

  28. I couldn’t agree more with all the comments about rubbish. I cannot help but wonder why the Council is not doing more to liaise with the RFU and the police. We have had the problem of people urinating and defecating in people’s gardens since before the Council elections in 2014. The Twickenham Riverside Councillors must know it’s a problem and yet they do nothing to hold the RFU to account.
    We face two enormous problems in the Twickenham Riverside this year: football supporters using the RFU stadium and the World Cup.
    It is time for our local Councillors to move about a bit and prove they are alive.

  29. Sally

    Its not a “bit of litter, Dorothy. Have you not read the comments? We are not talking about a dropped sweetie wrapper. Millwall sounds horrible, and its must be nice not to be bothered by anything in Twickenham. That doesn’t mean you can dismiss residents’ awful experiences. Vomit, pee,smashed bottles and human poo in gardens, in the playground along the Riverside-nothing to complain of? “Whining?” You are the RfU’s dream resident !

  30. Dorothy

    Sally I used to live opposite Millwall football ground so what you are whining about in Twickenham (a bit of litter) is nothing compared to the violence and disruption I experienced on the door step. You have two choices in my view either put up or move. I decided to move from Millwall. I now live in Twickenham where residents (not me) seem to spend an awful lot of time moaning about rugby and rubbish. Pathetic.

    As I said in my earlier post some folk really do need to get a life.

    • Whats wrong with folk wanting to improve their area? It may be a bit of litter but its litter that has no place being there. If you want to live in a place like that then perhaps you should think about moving back to Millwall?

      Most folk on here DO have a life and want to enjoy it in an area that’s not covered in piss and rubbish.

      As someone who has lived in Teddington / Twickenham all their life (with the exception of a few years here and there before you start banging on about “Living”) it’s only really this weekend and the Army / Navy match that are really starting to cause problems.

      Something can and should be done.

      On that note and if we are after comparisons I have, for the last 20 years, done business in Annapolis, Maryland where they have an almighty Army vs Navy match when I am there and guess what? no rubbish, no violence, no piss in the street just upwards of 50,000 folk enjoying the game and each others company without the need to ruin it for the others that choose to live in that area.

    • Allan Storer

      Dorothy years of living in Millwall and no doubt you have developed an immunity to loutish behaviour. We do not need to trudge around in other peoples rubbish and faeces to “get a life” whatever that vague phrase means.
      I believe in “Respect.” Respecting people, their space and safety or should I “get a life ” too and john these morons.

    • Angelina Jolly

      Err look at the photos Dorothy.

      Fans drink in bigger numbers down by the river, which had litter and broken glass everywhere. The riverside publicans and locals were discussing how bad it was on Sunday morning. I lived here for 43 years and have never seen anything like it.

    • As a resident of Chudleigh Road for the last 20 years, I have noticed a marked deterioration in standards of public behaviour at some events. Frankly, Dorothy, your comments are ridiculous.

    • dellboy

      many decades ago people went out to enjoy themselves; and had a drink, or two. Now they go out to drink and that is their enjoyment.
      There have always been problems in town and city centres on Saturday nights, rubbish,sick etc.
      With the RFU going professional and having the emphasis on profit, the stadium has increased its seating to 82,000, this has pushed what was put up with to an unacceptable level.
      You are out of step with the majority here, it appears we have higher standards of hygiene than you, and in what we believe is socially acceptable behavior.

    • Anonymous

      you can stop dismissing people’s legitimate concerns or you can get out of the comment section Dorothy

    • Tina Cooke

      You’re a strange one, Dorothy. Moving from disruption and violence in Millwall to Twickenham, which is pretty much famous for a big old sports stadium about to have a World Cup?? To avoid crowds & disruption, wouldn’t you move to – oh I dunno – Thames Ditton or somewhere? C’mon Dorothy – stop messing about – you’re a 12 year old kid having a laugh aren’t you? :D)) Yeah. I thought so.

  31. I have already commented on other social channels about this so I wont bang on here too much.

    Bottom line is this is no ordinary rugby event and has grown beyond what the organisers, I would imagine, had originally planned / set out to do.

    It all changed when they went for the fancy dress world record.

    This event is now firmly established in the social calendar for under 25s and is nothing more than an all day party fuelled by take out booze starting at breakfast. Yes a large number go for the rugby but I am certain more now go for the party and the party alone.

    I have already said I am not sure how Marriott (the headline sponsor) would see the negative publicity surrounding this years event or if they would want to be associated with Londons biggest under 25 “kids “party. So perhaps a few # tags directed towards them might just help..

    Most match days pass without incident however this will only get worse as more people want to attend especially as this year (according to the folk in the office who went) was one of the best…

  32. rugbyarts@talk21.com

    I’m sure we can “tolerate a bit of litter” but am not talking about “a bit. “Twenty bags removed from three front gardens ??? Broken beer bottles urine stench? I wonder what kind of person thinks that is acceptable.

    • I find it hard to believe twenty bags were removed from three front gardens. Do you have any evidence to support this allegation?

    • Allan Storer

      Dorothy I have a honest wife who cleared our garden along with our two elderly neighbours’ gardens before I came home. I then swept and tidied up until midnight. A lot worse was a heavy object which had been dismantled
      from our wall and thrown on to our garden path. This could have killed someone if it had hit them or had been thrown into the crowd.
      Dorothy you are either an agent provocateur or years of living in Millwall have numbed your senses as to what is socially acceptable. Were you by any chance asked to leave?

    • Sally

      So there was no problem, at all and we are all lying, deluded, over sensitive ?
      You’re not in Millwall now, Dorothy.
      In your dawn posts you go from saying it’s no problem for you to insulting posters by suggesting they are dishonest. I can only think you are trolling or have undying loyalty to one of the organisations under criticism for some reason.

  33. Cooper500

    I enjoy rugby and a beer but the 7s weekend is becoming more unmanageable the more popular it becomes. Certainly Saturday seemed like a huge end of school year party with no adults in control. I think in future years the Police and LBRUT need to look at curbs on shops selling alcohol before and after the match. The beer section in Waitrose was stripped bare for the second week in a row. A lot of the rubbish from this ended up strewn around Twickenham with the some of the recycled beverages being peed in the street or in front gardens.

    I suggest local residents impacted by this weekend events need to complain to the Community Safety team at LBRUT. Go to http://www.richmond.gov.uk/home/services/community_safety/anti-social_behaviour.htm

  34. Anonymous

    Hallelujah! More coverage of the crap side that Twickenham has to endure to have egg chasing on its (cabbage) patch! If it takes the litter, noise and pee et al to spread farther to get more of us in Twickenham to notice and speak up about it, then so be it. It makes a change from it just being those who have the misfortune to live near the ground and who have to tolerate hours of road closures one weekend or two every month on average, chase away p*ssed rugger buggers who have been pee’ing (and also cr*pping and sh*gging) in our gardens where our children play. And for those respond by saying ‘get a life’ or ‘you knew there was a rugby stadium nearby when you moved in’ I simply invite to try it for themselves; in their corporate greed for revenue, the RFU put on far more matches at Twickenham than they ever used to – even without the World Cup that we are all supposed to embrace and celebrate! And the last two events – the Army v Navy and the 7s are by far the worst!

  35. Cllr Alexander Ehmann

    I have received a number of resident complaints about the litter that was deposited in St Margaret’s and North Twickenham. I’ve been in touch with the RFU and the Council about particular ‘grot spots’ including St Margaret’s Station, which it transpires sit outside the footprint of agreed cleanup operations. My fellow Lib Dem Councillors and I are going to follow-up on these matters in the hope that future matches cause less litter and inconvenience to residents. If you have know of any concentrations of street litter from the 7’s that need cleaning up in St Margaret’s or from Twickenham Station to the Stadium, please drop me an email and I will bring it to the attention of the RFU and Council. Email: cllr.aehmann@richmond.gov.uk
    Thank you. Cllr Ehmann

    • Allan Storer

      Dear Councillor,
      It appears most of the problems are in Lib/Dem wards. Yours is the first reaction I’ve observed. It is a pity that none of your colleagues are proactive in this area and are sitting by whilst Twickenham is getting trashed.
      What about looking at liquor licences?
      Especially the bars in the stadium. If the Stadium was a nightclub it would have been closed down by now for a lot less public disorder. I cannot remember any members of the now closed Lap Dancing Club in Cross Deep trashing Twickenham !!! Fans should be barred from drinking and carrying cans in public places too. Another issue that contributes to crowds lingering , rubbishing the area and blocking pavements is the utilising of residents gardens for catering and sales. This should be stopped and the fans out of the area asap.

  36. Dorothy

    I love the way the locals get upset about a bit of litter. Some folk really do need to get a life.

    • Sally

      Dorothy, so you are not a local?
      Let me paint you a picture. Forget the groovy costumes. Let’s talk about :
      Trying to get my kids back from a visit at West Mid hospital, trip taking over an hour and boozed sweary people shrieking or draping them selves on my car at the lights, terrifying the kids. Great!
      The whole of Central Twickenham like a war zone. Shiopkeepers yet again confirm their takings are way down however well the pubs are doing. What Fun !
      Walking down our street the next morning and along the riverside. The rubbish, vomit and rivers of urine were appalling. My kids were dodging their scooters around broken glass, sick etc, Human poo outside the playground and by some riverside bushes.. Whoopee!
      You can say we all live near the stadium so should expect this blah blah but the RFU doesn’t have a blank cheque to do whatever it wants on those grounds. Despite the heavy spin that each and every fan lovesTwickenham it is obvious that the punters couldn’t care less. It’s a place to walk through and, for a sizeable proportion, to shout, litter and pee on.
      We all have a life. That’s what we were trying to have walking the kids around the crap by the river !

    • rugbyarts@talk21.com

      It may be a good idea to paint our railings and gates just before the next match.

  37. Mac

    Who thought up the idea of a Stars Wars convention in Twickenham last weekend? Brilliant! Except for the rubbish and usual traffic chaos, of course.

    It was a very different crowd for the Army and Navy match the previous weekend, but the rubbish down the streets was the same. You’re right, Richmond Council must get this sorted.

  38. Countless men decided that the wall outside my house was a top place to pee. Some even came in through the gate to do it – luckily I’m quite handy with a bucket of cold water and have a good aim. And this isn’t a problem restricted to the Sevens; we get much the same down here on the Embankment for any big match. The Barmy Arms had apparently rented 6 Portaloos but the RFU hadn’t bothered to put any up at the bottom of Water Lane where they’d have been most useful. It’s hardly the fault of the Barmy either – most of the people on the Embankment were drinking booze that had come from shops, not from the pub. I think the RFU need to take responsibility for their clients and sort out the toilet facilities – and oh the irony that just across the green from the worst of the litter in these pics, is the old toilet-block, long since closed down for reasons I never did fathom. I am dreading the world cup, frankly.

  39. rugbyarts

    The scene on Saturday night on leaving the station following the game was one of devastation. Twickenham appeared to have been trashed. Gross amounts of rubbish, broken glass and the stench of urine. I felt sick and depressed not only by the sight of these mindless acts of depravation but also the thought that fellow humans could sink to such base levels of behaviour. Even animals are known to clean up after themselves.

    The matter was not made better on finding my front garden had been vandalised too. My wife quite distressed had already removed 20 black bags of rubbish from both our elderly neighbours gardens and our own. I was sweeping and cleaning up until midnight.

    We need tougher rules to govern these louts. A night club or pub with unruly behaviour is refused a liquor licence. The same should apply to the Rugby Stadium. If they cannot control their customers, close their bars down. The same restraints should apply to Twickenham Public houses too, as would apply to any nightclub.

    Additionally the renting out of residents front gardens to food and sales street outlets apart from despoiling the area is also retaining the crowds too and should be closed down and our council stop issuing licences.

    Rugby match days are becoming chaotic events of alcoholic anarchy, nothing to do with what was once a “gentleman’s game” and we residents totally ignored by the RFU.